cities https://www.climateone.org/ en Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health https://www.climateone.org/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health<span class="field field--name-uid field--type-entity-reference field--label-hidden"><span>BenTestani</span></span> <span class="field field--name-created field--type-created field--label-hidden">Thu, 09/07/2023 - 6:24 pm</span> <div class="field__item">&nbsp;</div> <div class="field__item"><p id="docs-internal-guid-62343034-7fff-4a65-75cc-f7e8eb83bb36"><span>Since the industrial revolution, the global north has seen massive economic growth. And today, many believe continued growth to be the engine of a healthy economy. Yet much of that growth has been linked to increasing greenhouse gas emissions. We also live on a planet with finite resources, so it's hard to believe that we can continue to consume resources and release emissions and not sail right past our collective climate goals. </span></p> <p><span>That’s why some are looking to new economic ideas that don’t make growth the primary measure of a successful economy. Marieke van Doorninck, Director of Kennisland and former Deputy Mayor of Amsterdam, says, “We can't keep on growing. Our earth doesn't provide enough resources to keep on growing. And our social system doesn't have the foundation to keep on growing.”</span></p> <p><span> Climate and social justice activist Anuna De Wever argues  that selective degrowth of certain sectors of economies in wealthy countries would allow everyone to live within planetary boundaries. “Degrowth looks at the combination of feminist theory, Marxist theory, and obviously anti-capitalism, decolonization, [and] anti-racism.” </span></p> <p><span>Leigh Phillips, journalist and author of Austerity Ecology &amp; The Collapse-Porn Addicts, argues that degrowth would actually hurt the least privileged people in both rich and poor countries. “To give everybody in the world the standard of living of the average Dane would require economic growth of about five times the current size of the global economy.,” Phillips says. “The vast majority of greenhouse gas emissions come from vitally socially necessary activities such as heating, electricity, transportation, cement for the building of homes, schools, hospitals, and so on and so forth.”</span></p> <p><span>Phillips shares the goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions but believes that degrowth is the wrong approach. Instead, he favors  decoupling growth from emissions, largely by swapping polluting technologies for clean technologies – such as swapping your methane gas stove for an electric induction cooktop.While it is true that around 30 countries have decoupled economic growth from emissions growth, overall global emissions are growing. </span></p> <p><span>In 2012, economist Kate Raworth came up with the idea of what she called “The Doughnut Economy.” Raworth says, “I tried to draw a picture of the world that we want to live in and it, silly though it sounds, it came out looking like a doughnut American one with a hole in the middle.” The doughnut serves as a visual representation where the hole of the doughnut represents deprivation, where there is a shortfall of resources necessary for people to have a good life. The doughnut ring itself offers the range where society can live without breaching planetary boundaries, represented by anything beyond the doughnut. </span></p> <p><span>Amsterdam was the first city to adopt aspects of Doughnut Economics into city policy. The first programs began during the COVID-19 pandemic. Marieke van Doorninck was the driving force behind adopting doughnut policies. She says, “People were looking for answers and knew that we couldn't find those answers in old economical models that had failed us already.” </span></p> <p><span>When the Amsterdam city government noticed that there were people in the city who couldn’t access tablets or laptops, they created a program where instead of buying new laptops and tablets for those people, old laptops and other devices were collected and refurbished by people who were out of work. The program fulfilled the needs of those who needed electronic devices for work and school, and helped those who wanted work, all without producing any new products. That program is still in place. </span></p> <p><span>Marieke van Doorninck says, “The idea about degrowth is really what's after growth. So that's why I like the term post-growth very much. It's about, so now that we have grown, what do we do? We can't keep on growing. We have to stabilize, we have to look for where do we go next? And you know, when people think that if we stop growing, we get recession. I think what we need to say is: after growth you get flowering. You get blossom. And I think we need to learn how to blossom.” </span></p> </div> <div class="cards cards_sideswipe small_square"> <div class="container title"> <h2>Guests</h2> </div> <div class="container sideswipe"><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="100145"> <figure> <a href="/people/anuna-de-wever"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/image_6483441.JPG?itok=VP-S6pU8 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-09/image_6483441.JPG?itok=NiyqcrgC 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5403" height="5405" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/image_6483441.JPG?itok=VP-S6pU8" alt="woman with short hair stands infront of trees" alt="woman with short hair stands infront of trees" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/anuna-de-wever">Anuna de Wever</a></h1> <div class="title">Climate and social justice activist</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="100146"> <figure> <a href="/people/leigh-phillips"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Leigh.png?itok=q6S6Xgst 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-09/Leigh.png?itok=bVnuiJrT 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="500" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Leigh.png?itok=q6S6Xgst" alt="Leigh Phillips" alt="Leigh Phillips" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/leigh-phillips">Leigh Phillips</a></h1> <div class="title">Journalist and author of Austerity Ecology & The Collapse-Porn Addicts</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="100147"> <figure> <a href="/people/marieke-van-doorninck"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Marieke.png?itok=kESPS7cT 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-09/Marieke.png?itok=071NnmZT 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="500" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Marieke.png?itok=kESPS7cT" alt="Marieke van Doorninck" alt="Marieke van Doorninck" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/marieke-van-doorninck">Marieke van Doorninck</a></h1> <div class="title">Director, Kennisland, Former Deputy Mayor, Amsterdam</div> </article> </div><div class="col empty"></div> </div> </div><h1 class="node__title">Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health</h1> <div class="field__item"><time datetime="2023-09-08T12:00:00Z" class="datetime">09/08/2023</time> </div> <div class="field-resources field--label-hidden field__items"> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-709" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://doughnuteconomics.org/about-doughnut-economics" target="_blank">Doughnut Economics Action Lab (doughnuteconomics.org)</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-710" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://www.collectiveinkbooks.com/zer0-books/our-books/austerity-ecology-collapse-porn-addicts" target="_blank">Austerity Ecology &amp; the Collapse-porn Addicts (collectiveinkbooks.com)</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-711" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2" target="_blank">How do CO2 emissions compare when we adjust for trade? (ourworldindata.org)</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-712" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22408556/save-planet-shrink-economy-degrowth" target="_blank">Can we save the planet by shrinking the economy? (vox.com)</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-713" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://www.archdaily.com/997291/how-amsterdam-uses-the-doughnut-economics-model-to-create-a-balanced-strategy-for-both-the-people-and-the-environment" target="_blank">How Amsterdam Uses the Doughnut Economics Model (archdaily.com)</a></div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="share-this"> <div><a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A//www.climateone.org/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health&amp;text=Rethinking%20Economic%20Growth%2C%20Wealth%2C%20and%20Health" target="_blank"><svg version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" x="0px" y="0px" viewBox="0 0 248 204"><path fill="#ffffff" class="st0" d="M221.95,51.29c0.15,2.17,0.15,4.34,0.15,6.53c0,66.73-50.8,143.69-143.69,143.69v-0.04 C50.97,201.51,24.1,193.65,1,178.83c3.99,0.48,8,0.72,12.02,0.73c22.74,0.02,44.83-7.61,62.72-21.66 c-21.61-0.41-40.56-14.5-47.18-35.07c7.57,1.46,15.37,1.16,22.8-0.87C27.8,117.2,10.85,96.5,10.85,72.46c0-0.22,0-0.43,0-0.64 c7.02,3.91,14.88,6.08,22.92,6.32C11.58,63.31,4.74,33.79,18.14,10.71c25.64,31.55,63.47,50.73,104.08,52.76 c-4.07-17.54,1.49-35.92,14.61-48.25c20.34-19.12,52.33-18.14,71.45,2.19c11.31-2.23,22.15-6.38,32.07-12.26 c-3.77,11.69-11.66,21.62-22.2,27.93c10.01-1.18,19.79-3.86,29-7.95C240.37,35.29,231.83,44.14,221.95,51.29z"/></svg></a></div> <div><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=1&amp;url=https%3A//www.climateone.org/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health&amp;title=Rethinking%20Economic%20Growth%2C%20Wealth%2C%20and%20Health" target="_blank"><svg height="72" viewBox="0 0 72 72" width="72" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><defs><mask id="letters" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"><rect fill="#fff" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"></rect><path fill="#000" style="fill: #000 !important" d="M62,62 L51.315625,62 L51.315625,43.8021149 C51.315625,38.8127542 49.4197917,36.0245323 45.4707031,36.0245323 C41.1746094,36.0245323 38.9300781,38.9261103 38.9300781,43.8021149 L38.9300781,62 L28.6333333,62 L28.6333333,27.3333333 L38.9300781,27.3333333 L38.9300781,32.0029283 C38.9300781,32.0029283 42.0260417,26.2742151 49.3825521,26.2742151 C56.7356771,26.2742151 62,30.7644705 62,40.051212 L62,62 Z M16.349349,22.7940133 C12.8420573,22.7940133 10,19.9296567 10,16.3970067 C10,12.8643566 12.8420573,10 16.349349,10 C19.8566406,10 22.6970052,12.8643566 22.6970052,16.3970067 C22.6970052,19.9296567 19.8566406,22.7940133 16.349349,22.7940133 Z M11.0325521,62 L21.769401,62 L21.769401,27.3333333 L11.0325521,27.3333333 L11.0325521,62 Z"/></mask></defs><path id="blue" style="mask-image: url(#letters); 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Please check the actual audio before quoting it.</em></p> <p id="docs-internal-guid-753d4add-7fff-143a-8862-b4dd46f4f179"><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>:  This is Climate One. I’m Greg Dalton.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: And I’m Ariana Brocious.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: Since the industrial revolution, the global north has sustained economic growth unlike any other time in history. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: And today, many understand continued growth to be the engine of a healthy economy.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>:  Almost everyone is for economic growth. That’s generally unquestioned. But by and large, economic growth has been tied to greenhouse gas emissions. AND we live on a planet with finite resources,  That’s why we’re talking about growth today. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: Right, it’s hard to believe that we can continue to consume resources and release emissions and not sail right past our collective climate goal of limiting global temperature rise to prevent worsening climate impacts.  </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: And, frankly, it’s hard to see how everyone on the planet could live the way the two of us do. I have a hard time seeing that add up. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>:  That’s why some people are starting to rethink perpetual economic growth and the structure of the economy. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>:  There is a school of thought emerging in some circles called Post-Growth or Degrowth. One of its main ideas is finding ways to measure the health of an economy using metrics other than growth. Like a well-being index, for example. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: Which sounds a lot better than Gross Domestic Product. And, importantly, proponents of this approach are focused on how  we can have equity and prosperity living within planetary boundaries – essentially the real and firm environmental limits within which humanity can safely exist. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: And humanity depends on pollinators for producing food, forests for cleaning water, trees for cleaning air. We need services provided by nature to sustain all life on this planet, including our own. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: Recognizing that interdependence, some economists, academics, and activists are advocating a philosophy called degrowth – basically, a planned reduction in some economic areas to help conserve the environment and address the climate crisis. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: Like any political discussions though, these words can mean a lot of different things to different people, and pinning down exactly what is being proposed can be difficult. To talk through these ideas, I had a conversation with climate and social justice activist, Anuna De Wever, who is an advocate for degrowth and decolonization. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: Joining the conversation is <a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>, journalist and author of Austerity Ecology &amp; the Collapse-Porn Addicts. He’s a critic of the degrowth movement. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: Anuna started the conversation by sharing her personal journey to embracing degrowth. </span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> I've been a climate activist for a very long time, and it actually started with me being a human rights activist, and after a while I started realizing that the climate crisis is the biggest human rights crisis of our century that we'll face. Maybe beyond if we don't actually get to solve it. And so for a very long time, also being a spokesperson of a movement, I've been in a lot of political debates with politicians, with journalists, with CEOs, with organizations, talking about the different solutions that we could use to actually battle the climate crisis. And none of them were systemic enough until I found Degrowth. And Degrowth looks at the combination of feminist theory, um, Marxist theory, uh, obviously anti capitalism. Decolonization, anti-racism. A lot of the theories that I actually subscribe to and a lot of the theories that I think about when I think about the system that actually got us into this. And so recently I've heard about it. I've been looking into it, I've been studying it, uh, and um, thinking and working around how to use that in my activism and how to actually strengthen the degrowth movement.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> What makes you happy, Anuna, and does capitalism deliver that for you?</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> No. It really doesn't, and that's actually one of the things that I also see apart from all of the harm that capitalism is bringing onto our world. Globally and in Europe, uh, capitalism also doesn't make me happy as an individual. The things that make me happy is the time that I get to spend with my family and friends and clean air, fresh water, a healthy planet, a secure future. And these are all things that are, uh, very insecure right now. And I am also a wide European climate activist. I am in a very privileged position when it comes to the climate crisis, so even understanding how the system is harming me versus the rest of the world, uh, my generation and the other, other activists that I'm working with. This is just a very, very necessary topic for us to talk about. So again, thank you for having me. I'm, I'm really excited to be delving into this.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Leigh, do the material things produced by our capitalist system make you happy?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> I would say that the problems with capitalism is not so much that it makes me happy or unhappy, it's that there's a set of things that are useful, which is larger than the set of things that is profitable. If there's something that is beneficial, But isn't, but isn't profitable there's no incentive in markets, to produce those things. And conversely, if there is something that is, that we know to be harmful, but is profitable, there continues to be an incentive for those, those goods or services to be produced.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Right. I had an investment banker say to me once, who's diabetic there's no financial incentive in curing diabetes because there's a profit incentive in selling him insulin every week and every day that he needs to put in his body. Right? Be another example. Do you think, Leigh, that you consume too much and do you ever feel bad about how much you consume? </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> No, uh, my God. Um, I think that, um, it takes a level of extreme middle class privilege to think that, uh, Westerners, whether we're talking about Americans or Europeans, or Canadians, in my case, consume too much when 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, that for the last 40 years, working class Americans, working class Europeans have suffered from nothing but austerity, uh, deindustrialization, stagnating wages in many sectors. If anything, I would like to see working class people earn a lot more, uh, to be able to consume a lot more. I want to be able for everybody to have a nice life.</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> I wanna point out that we completely agree on that. I think only our conclusion is different. I think that it's very true that there's a lot of people in western societies and wealthy countries that are living paycheck to paycheck that are living in poverty, that are living in, uh, energy, poverty, and crisis and insecurity. And that, for me comes out of the conclusion that however much capitalism is producing and consuming all the time, it is still leaving so many people behind. And that's actually where I'm thinking oky, wae clearly need to look at the system very critically and actually understand who are we growing this economy for? What is laying underneath our economy and how do we change that? But understanding the problems that also people in the West have with capitalism. I very, very much do. However, on a global scale, the 1%, and I'm not a part of that 1%, but the 1% consumes, uh, 50% of everything. And that's, and that is also a result of, of capitalism because capitalism is built for wealth accommodation. So that is just an organic result of what happens if we continue to live in this economic system.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> Right. So to lift everybody up, to lift everybody up to a decent standard of living, let's say like a middle-class Dane, somebody from Denmark. You know, we often talk about Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland being like, um, both very egalitarian but highly prosperous society. So, so that's the service, society or level standard of living that I like to see everybody in the world have. For that to happen, Max Roser. Our World in Data, the sort of data visualization and statistics organization out of Oxford University made a calculation recently that to give everybody in the world the standard of living of the average the average Dane, would require economic growth of about five times the current size of the global economy. So even though I do think that you, I think you are absolutely sincere when you say that you would like to see working class people in Europe and North America to live a good life and not have austerity imposed on them anymore. But in order to achieve that, you have to have a lot more economic growth. Even if we redistributed the wealth of the 1%, it would not be sufficient to ever to lift everybody in the world up to a nice Danish middle class standard of living.</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> First of all, there's a lot of research, right? Because, there's recent research actually published in Science Direct that flourishing lives globally, all around the world with 60% less of the resource use and 80% less of our energy use. So those are huge numbers in which we can actually look at what are we producing, what are we consuming? Why does it take so much energy and resources, and how can we slim that in our economy? And again, I think that thinking if you just have more growth and more growth and grow more growth like we're doing now, eventually we're gonna solve these issues like classism. No, I think classism is created through capitalism and that's where I find the analysis of thinking. We're just gonna continue to do what we do and hope that monopolies and, and the wealth will be redistributed. And even then, we need to grow our economy to redistribute even further on a global scale. First of all, there's a lot of science that contradicts that because we already have a lot of energy and wealth and resources that if we actually redistribute that and we have a democratic conversation about what we prioritize, we can live on a global scale with the things that we need and meet people's basic needs, and capitalism just provide that.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> No, we can't. Think about all the schools and hospitals, just those, just all the schools and hospitals we would have to build in the global south to deliver that level of access to them. How much cement we would be having to produce extra cement, uh, uh, producing how much extra electricity we would need, to power those, just those hospitals and schools. And to say, and to say that we, that we can do that without, that we can deliver all those services to people without an increase in, um, in economic growth is false. What is true is that we can become more efficient with our use of energy. We can be more efficient with our use of material resources. We can what's called decouple, economic growth from, from resource use. And what we found is, That, you know, there are about 30 countries that have completely, absolutely not relatively decoupled their emissions from their economic growth. And that's also true for a number of other sectors that we wanna be, we might be concerned with beyond climate change, there are a range of different sectors, uh, where there's been absolutely decoupling, continued economic growth in those sectors while the material and energetic use has, has, has plateaued or declined.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> I'll admit that coming into this, coming into this interview, I thought that no country had decoupled economic growth from carbon emissions. That's the goal of economies to rise and emissions to decline. I'm chagrinned to say, when I looked into Our World in Data, many decoupled, most are industrialized economies in North America, Europe, also Estonia, Jordan, and some other emerging economy, so decoupling is happening on a country level. It has not yet happened on a global level, and Anuna, isn't that evidence that green growth is starting to work?</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> Not at all. So the thing is, the question is not if we can decouple emissions from GDP growth. We know that we can, but we cannot do that with the timeline of carbon budget, planetary boundaries and feedback loops and scale that we needed to do, there is simply no empirical evidence that proves that we can, If you're saying that green growth really works absolute decoupling is working and green growth is working, our emissions are rising. We have crossed six out of nine planetary boundaries. The IPCC report said that in less than five years from now, we're gonna cross our 1.5 degree threshold. And what we are seeing is that the renewable energies that we are generating to actually compensate for the energy that we need to grow our economy are just not coming fast enough since we are growing this economy. So we continuously need more energy and resources and in that we're also, we, we keep talking about energy, but we also need to talk about resources. We do live in an economy that is built on white supremacy and a lot of the trade and investment agreements, a lot of the trade and investment agreements that we have, especially in Europe, still have very big colonial dynamics built into them regarding raw materials. So when you're talking about growing our economy, do you also understand how much resources and raw materials that needs and where we're gonna get that from? </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> And I would suggest that the working class people in those countries, might want economic development and that in, so take for example, Canada and Australia, these are two, um, developed countries where they, you we still have a very, very large part of our economy devoted to mining. Now thanks to decades of trade union struggle of indigenous struggle of, in fact environmental struggle in these two countries, there are very strong, labor protections. There are good health and safety standards, there are good wages. For example, in northern Saskatchewan,which is where most of North America gets its uranium for, for nuclear power from, most of the workers. In those mines are indigenous. Those, they are, uh, they're very good, paying jobs. They're community supporting, their family, supporting those first nations, those indigenous people are not calling for an end to mines. In fact, if, uh, they put out, they regularly put out statements saying that they're concerned about the closure of nuclear power plants in the United States organized by people like the deep, you know, deep growth community and other environmentalists, because it would result in a loss of jobs. Progressive governments in Latin America are in favor of, extraction. But what they want is extraction. Where there are strong trade union protections, there are strong health and safety standards, and there are strong environmental standards. Once we have that, then there's nothing wrong with extraction whatsoever</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: You’re listening to a Climate One conversation about a post-growth economy. Our podcasts typically contain extra content beyond what’s heard on the radio. If you missed a previous episode, or want to hear more of Climate One’s empowering conversations, subscribe to our podcast wherever you get your pods. </span></p> <p><span>Please help us get people talking more about climate by giving us a rating or review. You can do it right now on your device. You can also help by sending a link to this episode to a friend. On our new website you can create and share playlists focused on topics including food, energy, EVs, activism. </span></p> <p><span>Coming up, what could degrowth mean for the global south?</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever: </strong><span>This means degrowth in wealthy nations that are currently extracting and exploiting developing nations so that we can grow the economies and develop the economies on a local and community level in countries in the global south that have for long suffered from these colonial legacies.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: That’s up next, when Climate One continues.</span></p> <p><span> </span></p> <p><span>Let’s get back to my conversation with Anuna Der Wever and <a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>. Techno-switching is the idea that we can swap one technology for another to reduce emissions. Swapping your methane gas stove for an electric induction cooktop, for example. Those kinds of changes are powerful and necessary. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: But some techno-optimists make it sound like techno-switching is all we need to do. And that avoids harder changes in our personal behavior as well as our culture and economy that others think are necessary.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: <a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a> says techno-switching will be required of us. </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> The vast majority of, greenhouse gas emissions come from vitally socially necessary, activities such as heating, electricity, transportation, cement for the building of homes, schools, hospitals, and so on and so forth. So we have no choice but to technology switch. The question is instead is how, how does capitalism or how do markets. potentially delay or inhibit that technology switching. And as I said earlier, if there is something that is profitable, and that is a benefit to us, then there's an incentive for that to happen. And so in some cases that is happening already. The problem comes when we have technologies that, that maybe not be ready for prime time yet, that where there are lab bench or startup or a certain research level or even, and that needs to be taken through, the Valley of Death through to competitive commercialization for that to happen, we can't depend on market business as usual. And what we have to have is some sort of state intervention, in the form of things like regulation or industrial policy, there are many different types of industrial policy or even public ownership, to be able to cover that gap with that, that to de-risk,the development of those technologies and move them through to, to, competitive commercialization. And the problem that we have had historically is that we've only, and why we have been so delayed in this is twofold. One is that we primarily focused on things like, small tweaks to markets such as carbon pricing rather than much more robust intervention in the economy in the form of things like industrial policy. And I would say that the Inflation Reduction Act in the United States is a sea change. In how we approach this, where there is now government incentives to develop these technologies, recognizing that markets left to their own devices will not solve the problem. So in many respects, that's a sort of socialist shift.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Anuna, your view on technology switching and industrial policy.</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> I think technology switching technology development, Renewable energies, all of those technology, technological solutions we are going to need. What is my problem is that it seems to be the only thing that people constantly refer to that and decoupling on why we can just continue to do what we're doing and it's not gonna be an issue. And every single time, again, I'm looking at emissions rising. I'm looking at planetary boundaries, carbon budget feedback groups, IPCC reports. It's not getting any better. And also, I c authors are saying that the technology that we will need to reduce the emissions as radically as they need to be reduced, does not exist.We had a, I’m at a degrowth conference right now actually, and there was a keynote yesterday, from Diana Uge, who is an vice president of IPCC right now. And she was saying that by 2050 in the most optimistic economic growth scenarios. The vast majority of the world's population won't even have a refrigerator, let alone us developing these kinds of technologies that are gonna do the amount of carbon capture that you imagine. So my issue is just that I feel like we are constantly going back to these solutions to avoid looking at the system that is actually causing it, and the system is intersectional. The system is big, the system is historical. I am a 22 year old activist and I'm trying to understand how all of this is fitting together. It's a huge thing. But what I am seeing is that my generation is willing to actually have the conversation to actually dream about a different alternative reality. And we have been promised so many things for such a long time and it's simply not working. So we are looking at different alternative economic systems because at the end of the day, it is about our economic system that does need to change.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> And Leigh, we talk about an energy transition and reality is we've grown a lot of renewables, wind, solar, electric vehicles, but it's really been an energy addition. Those new technologies are fueling new demand. They're not displacing fossil fuels. EV adoption is not denting oil demand. So while we're deploying lots of renewables, that's really just feeding growth. It's not displacing fossil fuels in a way we need to reduce emissions. Would you agree with that, Leigh?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> I would say that I think you're looking at things too much at a global level and at a global level it is true that emissions, and fossil fuel use are continuing to grow. But I would suggest that we return to the point that I made earlier about, there's 30 countries that have, or roughly 30 countries that have absolutely decoupled. Let's remember it was only last year that the Inflation Reduction Act was passed. It's been one year. The European Union, for example, continues to overwhelmingly depend upon market mechanisms, its emissions trading scheme to drive through, emissions decoupling, decarbonization. And I would suggest that, the more that we push for industrial policy, the faster the decarbonization will happen. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong><span>How do race and privilege play into the way you believe we should address the climate crisis?</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> I think that's where democratization comes in, and that's also a part of Degrowth. That's also part of socialism is that you look at who can actually be a part of this political debate and how can we make sure everybody has access to that? Degrowth is about selective degrowth, so this means degrowth in wealthy nations that are currently extracting and exploiting developing nations so that we can grow the economies and develop the economies on a local and community level in countries in the global south that have for long suffered from these colonial legacies. And on top of that, there's also a lot of people that are just excluded from that debate, entirely. I'm working a lot on the, in my main campaign, and it's a campaign for the regularization of undocumented, people. So people that are not even recognized as human beings in a country and they're completely excluded from a debate that is actually very harmful to them because they are obviously, very much touched by the consequences of the climate crisis. So for me, democratization in that is, is extremely important and I have a lot of access to political debates. Obviously, I'm literally sitting here with you having this debate on a big podcast, so I am hoping that there's gonna be many more people around the world that deserve this platform to have this platform. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> And now Leigh, how about your view of how race and privilege play into the way you believe we should address the climate crisis?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> I think there’s a soft racism within a section of the climate left, within the Degrowth community that, uh, assumes that people in the developing world, in the global south do not want to develop, that they, um, that that extraction can only be performed in ways that are, uh, colonial. It ignores what people in those, the majority of people in those, uh, those regions and in those countries are actually saying, uh, what they want. And that doesn't just go for people in the developing world, but also people of color and indigenous people in the developed world as well. That, uh, what we want, uh, what they want, which I think everybody wants, is good jobs that, uh, support their communities, that support their families that are intergenerational and sustainable with health andgood health and safety protections. And so I would say that the best avenue for a. A reckoning with, questions of race and privilege and, and disparities, inequality is through the trade union movement that I would love for the trade union movement to take, over the climate discourse and steer. the discourse towards the sort of industrial policy and technology switching and economic planning that I've been talking about.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> We've been talking about Degrowth and certainly in the United States, defund the police is a political kiss of death. And degrowth. It has the same kind of branding problem for me that like, people stop listening. So is Degrowth, post growth, are they the same thing to you? Would you agree that de growth degrowth is a terrible term.</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> As for the word degrowth, I think that where it came from is that there's been a lot of economic, new economic ideas. For example, the wellbeing economy, the care economy, circular economy, donor economy, that in some way or another have been co-opted by capitalism and have not been controversial enough for people to actually start debating it in a systemic way. And I think the intention there was that degrowth would be controversial, not co-opted by capitalism for people to actually have that debate. And I do think we succeeded in that. But the question remains, does this need to be the term of the movement, the way that we're gonna have these conversations? I don't know. I'm not very attached to it emotionally, to be honest. I think Degrowth is many things. As I said in the beginning, I think it integrates a lot of the systems thinking that I've been doing, and the word degrowth doesn't necessarily refer to that. So when it comes to actually having these conversations with movements, And by the way, I'm doing that because I'm part of grassroots movements also with a lot of indigenous movements and communities in the global south. These words are not necessarily centered in the conversation because it's just more about what does it actually mean for us and how are we gonna get there?</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Anuna, you say people are stuck in a productivity trap. What is that and what's an example of being stuck in a productivity trap?</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> What I mean with that is that our capitalist system requires us to grow our economy all the time. So we need to have labor that is productive. So people are constantly working and working. And we know this 'cause we call this the rat race, right? And also in my generation, I see that there is just so many people going into burnout and I must admit, the climate movement isn't great at that either, 'cause we also have a lot of people in burnout because we are obviously countering the systems. We're also working way too hard. But I think that this is a part of the conversation in Degrowth. If you stop being obsessed with the fact that we need to grow G D P all the time and you reprioritize what does it, what do we actually need in this economy? What does actually make people happy? What does basic human needs actually mean on a global scale?  Then you can also lower the labor hours and people don't have to work all the time to continue raising GDP. So for me, that's one of the, one of the most fundamental things. 'cause I feel like, and I see that in my circles, but we just know that from statistics, a lot of people are stuck in unfulfilling jobs. A lot of people are unhappy in the work that they're doing and the labor that they have to do every day to live from paycheck to paycheck. And this is something that also systemically and drastically and fundamentally needs to change. At the same time, I think that Leigh might also agree on that analysis, but not necessarily then on the conclusion.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Leigh, your response.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> I would say that I, I'd a four day work week. I think that's a great idea, so long as there's no loss in pay. but, I just don't see how we're going to build out all of the huge amount of clean energy infrastructure. I mean it's, the estimates are between, a doubling and a quadrupling of the current energy infrastructure enabled to electrify. Everything needs to be electrified and. And the other sort of,processes of decarbonization beyond electrification. So if anything, there's going to be a lot more work that needs to be done, over the next 20, 30, 40 years, to build out all that infrastructure. it needs to be done in an egalitarian fashion. I want to see less burnout for sure. I want to see a shorter work week and higher pay. But again, if you do all that, if you shorten the work week to four days a week without any loss in pay, that would put a lot more money in working class people's pockets. So they would spend a lot more money on many more things. Surely that's economic growth that would result in economic growth. Certainly the build out of all the, the infrastructure that, I was just talking about. Will also require, and is probably the, biggest burst of economic growth in human history to, to build all that stuff, that infrastructure out in the next 20 to 30 years. And then finally, I would just say that,in response to the argument that capitalism requires growth, socialism requires growth as well. To build, again, to build out all the public schools, the public, hospitals, the public clinics, the public energy systems, the public,railroads and so on and so forth. All of those non-capitalist,bits of infrastructure, need to grow as well if we're going to deliver,decent standard of living to everybody. So socialism also requires economic growth. Certainly the climate transition requires an enormous amount of economic growth.</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> This is about shifting, right? We have so many people and so much, resources and energy and labor going into corporations like Amazon, Apple, Shine, Coca-Cola, and that is not, those are not the things that are making people happy. So it's about shifting that labor, shifting those energies, shifting those resources, and again, reprioritizing what do we actually need? For example, the fast fashion industry, we have six times the amount we have enough clothes right now to close six generations of human beings, and we keep producing and producing more. We keep using resources, energy, labor, to do that for things that nobody needs, and that is what degrowth is about. It's having a conversation about what is a priority here. All of the resources, all of the energies, all of these things that are also, again, crossing all of these sanitary boundaries, we are not even able to provide people with basic human needs.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Leigh, what about GDP as the sole measure of human progress and prosperity and what might replace GDP?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> Well,  I'm a socialist, so I have no particular attachment to that particular metric. I think there's lots of other metrics we could use, but, the question isn't so much. The metric is whether we need a open-ended, bounded unbounded, economic growth to steadily allow for human progress.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Do you believe there are planetary boundaries that, people say that, we just can't hammer and extract from the earth? 8 billion people living like the three of us frankly, doesn't work.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> I've said before that, we've seen in a number of sectors, in a number of countries that we've achieved absolute decoupling. So yes, you can. We've already proven that. we can, we can continue to expand the standard of living of people while absolutely decoupling their resource use of course once energetic, Which energy use is decarbonized, and it doesn't really matter how much we expand it by.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> We focused on the disagreements, but I actually think you agree, quite a bit. Climate's a real problem. We need fundamental change in the economy. Anuna, what do you hear from Leigh that you agree with?</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> I agree with the fact that you're saying that you do feel there needs to be a systemic social and political change. And I don't hear that a lot in the conversation that I'm having about Degrowth, so I appreciate you saying that, and I think that's true. Also because you're a socialist, obviously, you're not a diehard capitalist, I can see that. And I think that's also where we agree, where we do need to redistribute and we do need to invest in the commons. And we do need to make sure that everybody globally, any western societies have access to human basic needs. We just disagree on how to get there. But I think the intention is the same.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> And Leigh, what have you heard from Anuna that you agree with?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/leigh-phillips" hreflang="en">Leigh Phillips</a>:</strong><span> Yeah, I would reflect that back to her. She's very clearly an egalitarian, a socialist, very concerned about racism and colonialism. These are all my pet issues as well that she believes in,the scientific evidence for anthropogenic global warming. there's so much that we do agree on. But I do, I also agree with her, on her diagnosis that, we just disagree on the path, out of that problem.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Lee Phillips and an Anuna De Wever. Thank you so much for sharing your passionate ideas and differences here on Climate One.</span></p> <p><strong>Anuna De Wever:</strong><span> Thank you.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>:  In 2012 economist Kate Raworth came up with an theory called Doughnut Economics, which is another variation of a post-growth philosophy. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: It sounds delicious, but it has nothing to do with fried dough. That’s just a helpful image to think through this approach. Let’s hear Raworth  explain Doughnut Economics.  This audio is courtesy of Ross Harrison. </span></p> <p><strong>Kate Raworth</strong><span>: I tried to draw a picture of the world that we want to live in and it, silly though, it sounds, it came out looking like a donut American one with a hole in the middle. So imagine a donut. There's the outside and then there's the inside and there's that hole in the middle. In the hole in the middle. That's a space of deprivation, a space of shortfall where people don't have the resources to meet the essentials of life. Like they don't have enough food or education. They don't have access to electricity, enough income, they don't have decent housing. So it's a space of shortfall and we want to get people outta that hole in the middle, into the donut, but we want to do that for the whole world, making sure that we also don't go beyond the donuts out crust because that's a space of ecological overshoot where humanity puts more pressure on the planet than the planet can take. And we start causing climate change or massive loss of biodiversity. We start creating a hole in the ozone layer or polluting earth with chemicals that we add to it. So we need to both get people out of deprivation and poverty. Also protect earth but also protect these fundamental life supporting systems that keep us alive. Those are the two sides of human wellbeing. The inside and the outside. The donut. And the 21st century challenge is a unique one. It's to get everybody outta poverty while coming back in at the same time. That's never been taken on before and that's partly why we need to rewrite economics, 'cause it's a completely new way of looking at what human wellbeing is. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: Raworth has since started the Doughnut Economics Action Lab to help implement her ideas in cities, countries and businesses around the world. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: And the first place to implement some of those principles was the city of Amsterdam. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: After the break, we’ll hear from Marieke Van Doorninck</span><strong>, </strong><span>who was deputy mayor of Amsterdam and the driving force behind the city’s adoption of doughnut economics, on what it was like to bring new ideas to city policy. </span></p> <p><strong>Marieke Van Doorninck:</strong><span> It's about so many other things than about consuming and about, getting money. So I think it really helped people to think about that we need new solutions for the problems that we're dealing with</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: That’s up next</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: It’s one thing to talk about ideas that could be implemented. It’s another to actually try and implement them. Amsterdam was the first city to adopt Doughnut Economics into city policy. And they started during the COVID-19 pandemic.   </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> I talked with Marieke Van Doorninck, who was deputy mayor for the City of Amsterdam when the doughnut policies were adopted. She says it began with Amsterdam’s high sustainability goal.</span></p> <p><strong>Marieke Van Doorninck:</strong><span> Amsterdam had high ambitions on emissions when I started in 2018, it was said that we had to reduce 55 percent of our CO2 emissions So there was a big ambition. So when I was looking at the options, I had to do that. Most of the options, very, very technical. Uh, so actually what you do is you. You replace one fuel for the other, for a fossil fuel, and you make it into a biofuel or a synthetic fuel. Um, you're looking at cars. You go from an a, a motor car to a, an electric car. And actually just by changing one fuel system to the other actually doesn't solve all the problems. And, one of the problems that you could extra have is that all these solutions were quite expensive. so those who can afford to live sustainable could do that. They could buy an electric car, they could have the solar panels on their roof, but, uh, a lot people couldn't. And you create some kind of eco-elite, where the problems of inequality, which is also a big crisis in in many countries in the world, and, and Amsterdam has no exceptions, wouldn't be solved by that. And at the same time also this kind of what we call green growth, where actually we keep on growing and we keep the same economy that we have. We just do it in a green way. It uses a lot of natural resources like cobalt and lithium. And we also know that we also run out of these resources. So the ecological crisis that we have, that, you know, the damage done by all this mining of these minerals would actually not get better, but would get worse throughonly looking at, , getting sustainability by all these, uh, new techniques. So we knew we had to look for, uh, for something else, and that was really in the way that we produce and that we consume. Our economy is based on growth. If our economy doesn't grow, we're immediately in a recession. and, and that makes that we're keep on producing and producing and, and things are made to be broken. Things are made to grow out of efficient very fast so that we can buy new stuff to keep the economy growing. And if, if we are honest to each other, that. This system that this indefinite growth on a finite Earth is just no longer sustainable because it takes too much of our planet and it takes too much of our people, like thousands and millions of people who live on a very bad labor conditions because of this, this overconsumption, this addiction, uh, to growth. But for a long time we all were told that there is no alternative. This is the only economic model. So when I read about Kate Raworth donut economies, I really thought there is an alternative. There is another economic model that we can actually use, where we can fight the two crises that we're facing, the, the crisis of inequality that is growing and the crisis of climate and the crisis of biodiversity loss and the crisis of the ecological disasters that we're having. So for me, it was really looking at the problem, not from one side, just the sustainability, but really from the, both the social and the ecological side.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> So you've touched on this idea of slowing growth or reconsidering the perpetual growth that we've seen the world over in terms of the economy, and that's the focus of this episode, this idea of post growth. , one part of that concept is degrowth, which is kind of as you touched on this idea that wealthy countries cannot continue to have unlimited GDP growth. What do you think about the concept of Degrowth?</span></p> <p><strong>Marieke Van Doorninck:</strong><span> I think that we need to go towards a direction of degrowth because we can't keep on growing. Our earth doesn't provide enough resources, to keep on growing and, and our social system doesn't have, the foundation to, to, to keep on growing. And actually we don't need to keep on growing. We have in, in the western world, we have enough wealth, to live the way we do. We need to distribute our wealth in a better way. And actually the things that are, are not growing at the moment are the most important. It's our health, it's our wellbeing, it's our community life. Those are the things that are actually left behind in this, in this idea of economical growth. So the idea of degrowth is not about recession. The idea about degrowth is really what's after growth. So that's why I like the term post growth very much. It's about, so now that we have grown, what do we do? We can't keep on growing. We have to stabilize, we have to look for where do we go next? And you know, when people think that if we stop growing, we get recession. I think what we need to say is, after growth you get flowering. You get blossom. And I think we need to learn how to blossom.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Yes. Lovely picture there. So how did donut economic principles end up being adopted in Amsterdam?</span></p> <p><strong>Marieke Van Doorninck:</strong><span> We connected it to the circular strategy of Amsterdam, so very much on circular economies, which is not as, um, let's say revolutionary as, as donut economies, but something that, that most cities are working on when it comes to sustainability. So we linked the two and said, we want to do something extra, because if I had wanted to, you know, to have the donut in all aspects of the city, I think I would still be talking to a lot of people and, they, they would be scared to go that far. So we decided just to start with those issues that we have most influence on and see if we can start there. So what we did was looking at three main issues, where's huge amount of materials going on, and actually materials where Amsterdam had also a say over. So we were looking, uh, at the, at the three, um, aspects on construction, on food and consumer goods. So we were really looking at what is our impact right now in those issues and how can we change that? For example, Amsterdam needs to build a lot of houses because we do have a housing crisis here. But we know that construction is extremely polluting. So now that we're, we're constructing houses and we try to use as much wood and other natural materials, uh, as possible. So we put that in the demands of those who are building in Amsterdam, that there's a really high level of demands when it comes to sustainability and not only in the uses of energy, but also in the materials that are being used in the building. And at the same time, we ask builders to, uh, to make a passport of the house. So if there comes a time when things need to be repaired, you know, you can easily repair that house, or even when it needs to be deconstructed, you can take everything apart and then use it for a new building.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> That's remarkable. Honestly, that's a really exciting concept. So I just wanna clarify, are these things that are actually in policy in law, in some form that are requirements of builders or are they recommendations?</span></p> <p><strong>Marieke Van Doorninck:</strong><span> Uh, some of them are requirements. Many of them are requirements and some of them are, uh, recommendations. But in, in the way we build in Amsterdam, we do it in, uh, we do it with tenders. Soyou get a lot of points if you do it in a circular way. So a lot of the builders want to do that. So it is both on the materials used, but also on what we call nature inclusive. So to make sure that, for example, birds can nest in housing. The surroundings around the urban areas are still places where also animals can live or also places where important, fauna can, flora can be there. So it's really about adding something to nature instead of doing it, instead of the nature that is already, uh, that is already there, or even places where there is no nature at this moment. For example, an old industrial area, which is then being transformed into a neighborhood. We add a huge amounts of green to enhance biodiversity in those, uh, in those areas. The other thing that I really like is that we also have what we call a material bank. So if, if there's places where houses or other buildings are being deconstructed, , there's a register where you have to say where the windows go and where the doors go. So actually, if somebody is building, they can actually look at, um, what is in the register and what can I reuse again so that I don't have to get new materials.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> That's really interesting. There are some small scale models of that I can think of in the US like the organization, Habitat for Humanity, which will acquire donated materials and, and sell them at a discount to people who are looking, but it's not as formalized as what you're describing. So that's a positive example. Can you help us understand where implementation of this has been the most difficult.</span></p> <p><strong>Marieke Van Doorninck:</strong><span> Well, there's a few things that makes it difficult and, and one of them is the way that a government organization is being set up and it's very sectoral. So it's really, you have the social sector, you have the environment sector, you have the building sector, and the donut, of course, is a very holistic model. It really tries to get all these different elements that are, that are causing the crisis in, in the world to put them together, to address all of them. And, um, so within policies, it's quite difficult to put them all together. Uh, and actually also sometimes the benefits from a policy don't lands, let's say are don't, are, are not very much seen in the sector that is paying the most, most of the prices for, you know, the, the advantages because the benefit is maybe more social or ecological than on the departments within the city that's actually building the houses. So we, we really have to also have a more let's say holistic or integrated way of governing the city, to really implement a good donut, to do it in a holistic way. What I like about the donut is really, you can start right away. We have so many examples in Amsterdam where actually it's not the government, but it's just communities, small businesses, enterprises that are doing donut deals that are actually putting those ecological boundaries and those social foundations together and start up something. But if you really want to do it thoroughly and, and, and get into the donut, you would also need some more systematic changes. And I think one of the most important is our tax system. Right now, the taxes on labor are pretty high. Taxas on, on primary resources, like, you know, newly mined materials are still far too low to really compensate for all the damage that new materials or raw, raw resources are doing. So we need a big shift from labor to consumption or to using raw materials. And this is something that the city of Amsterdam can't do. This is something that we need to do on a. On a national level or even at an EU level.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Could you provide one quick example of what a community has done on their own?</span></p> <p><strong>Marieke Van Doorninck:</strong><span> One of the examples that we have is, that's a community in, in the southeast parts of Amsterdam and the Southeast is a rather poor and, and, uh, challenged neighborhood of Amsterdam. And there's a community they set we need to. get a sustainable heating system for our houses, because right now everything is on natural gas. but we don't want to be dependent and, and pay for a very expensive model. So what we want to do is we want to build our own digester system from old food, but also from the gutter. And to see if we can build this ourselves. And it's, it's, it's a huge plan. And they started step by step. So they now have a big food digester where also some of the, um, uh, small restaurants in the neighborhood and the shops in the neighborhood are distributing their old waste food and other waste products. They already are producing some gas right now. It's, it's quite difficult, but they're doing it. so actually the idea is, is people have something together, a little enterprise together for which they, uh, have their own cheap energy for their neighborhoods. But of course it takes a long time and there's more problems in the neighborhood. So they started by, , Also looking at the houses and say, uh, those are very bad insulated. So they bought some sewing machines and gave some sewing lessons to some of the people who were unemployed in the neighborhood. So people started sewing curtains for the neighborhood. And that was a good insulation. And at the same time, people would have an income by sewing those curtains. So it's, it's really small things, but it's, it's both increasing a community in a neighborhood where people are helping each other. It creates small jobs and it creates a sustainable way of heating, uh, heating the houses.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> That's really great. That's a lovely example. What role did the Covid crisis play in the adoption of donut economics?</span></p> <p><strong>Marieke Van Doorninck:</strong><span> Well, actually, when we were designing it, we were, we were looking forward to the launch and forward to all the discussions we would have about that. And, just a few weeks before the launch, COVID crisis hit the city and hit the World, and, uh, we were really discussing whether we should launch it because nobody was thinking about economics. People were thinking about their health. People were thinking about their, their businesses, afraid to, to go out of business because everything was closed down in, in, in the lockdown. So there was no room you would think of talking about donors, economics. And, um, in the end we decided to do it.</span></p> <p><span>So I had an interview with Kate Raworth, a double interview in the Guardian and it immediately went wild. And I think it was because of the covid crisis that people, in such a crisis where, When you, when you are, you know, back to what is the most important to you and it's about health and it's about your social context, people you couldn't see anymore. It's about so many other things than about consuming and about getting money. So I think it really. It really helped people to think about that we need new solutions for the problems that we're dealing with. So actually it became maybe much bigger because of the crisis, because people were looking for answers and knew that we couldn't find those answer in old economical models that had failed us already. And at the same time we had some of the donuts projects that we did were actually invented in, in, in Covid times. Uh, we noticed quite soon that everybody was dependent, of course, on a laptop or on an iPad or some of devices where you could communicate in order to go to school or another to, to other things. And we noticed that a lot of people due to financial problems, didn't have, uh, these means of communication. So what we did was to collect old laptops from the city and we had them refurbished by people who, who didn't have a job and who, uh, had some kind of distance to the labor market. And then we distributed them amongst those people who had financial problems and were in isolation. And actually, it's a program that is still running. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> What's been the most important realization you've had since the adoption of the donut model in Amsterdam?</span></p> <p><strong>Marieke Van Doorninck:</strong><span> I think if you really want to change things, start doing it. And maybe not wait for the perfect moment, but really collect a group of people who are willing and who are ready to change and start, start changing things and, and make sure that actually, communities, people who who want to make those changes need to be supported because I think change in the end comes from the people doing it and not by government telling people to change.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Marieke Van Doorninck is former Deputy Mayor for the City of Amsterdam and director of Kennisland. Thank you so much for joining us on Climate One.</span></p> <p><strong>Marieke Van Doorninck:</strong><span> It was my pleasure.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: On this Climate One... We’ve been talking about rethinking approaches to economic growth.   </span></p> <p><span>Climate One’s empowering conversations connect all aspects of the climate emergency. To hear more, subscribe wherever you get your pods. Talking about climate can be hard-- AND it’s critical to address the transitions we need to make in all parts of society. Please help us get people talking more about climate by giving us a rating or review. You can do it right now on your device. You can also help by sending a link to this episode to a friend. On our new website you can create and share playlists focused on topics including food, energy, EVs, activism. By sharing you can help people have their own deeper climate conversations. </span></p> <p><span>Brad Marshland is our senior producer; Our managing director is Jenny Park. Ariana Brocious is co-host, editor and producer. Austin Colón is producer and editor. Megan Biscieglia is our production manager. Wency Shaida is our development manager, Ben Testani is our communications manager. Our theme music was composed by George Young (and arranged by Matt Willcox). Gloria Duffy is CEO of The Commonwealth Club of California, the nonprofit and nonpartisan forum where our program originates. I’m Greg Dalton.</span></p> </div> <div class="field__item"><p><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-timestamp="4:00" data-image="" hreflang="en">4:00</a> - Anuna De Wever on embracing Degrowth<br /><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-timestamp="5:57" data-image="" hreflang="en">5:57</a> - Leigh Phillips on his problems with capitalism <br /><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-timestamp="8:22" data-image="" hreflang="en">8:22</a> - Leigh Phillips on required growth to life living standards<br /><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-timestamp="12:25" data-image="" hreflang="en">12:25</a> - Anuna De Wever on why green growth is not the answer<br /><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-timestamp="16:34" data-image="" hreflang="en">16:34</a> - Leigh Phillips on the need for technology-switching<br /><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-timestamp="21:17" data-image="" hreflang="en">21:17</a> -  Anuna De Wever on race and privilege and the climate crisis<br /><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-timestamp="24:14" data-image="" hreflang="en">24:14</a> -  Anuna De Wever on the usefulness of the term degrowth<br /><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-timestamp="32:31" data-image="" hreflang="en">32:31</a> - Kate Raworth on Doughnut Economics<br /><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-timestamp="35:10" data-image="" hreflang="en">35:10</a> - Marieke van Doorninck on Amsterdam’s high sustainability standards<br /><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-timestamp="37:28" data-image="" hreflang="en">37:28</a> - Marieke van Doorninck on overconsumption and growth addiction<br /><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-timestamp="47:37" data-image="" hreflang="en">47:37</a> - Marieke van Doorninck on implementing doughnut policies during COVID</p> </div> <div class="field-related-podcasts field--label-hidden field__items"> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100025"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" 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<picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-05/Podpage_Goldman.jpeg?itok=DekTukxA 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-05/Podpage_Goldman.jpeg?itok=9p9JYNVk 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-05/Podpage_Goldman.jpeg?itok=DekTukxA" alt="Nalleli Cobo and Marjan Minnesma" alt="Nalleli Cobo and Marjan Minnesma" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/two-heroes-challenging-powerful">Two Heroes Challenging the Powerful</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">May 19, 2023</div> </span> Making the necessary changes to address climate disruption will take massive collective action. But sometimes, a single individual can make an… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100082" data-title="Two Heroes Challenging the Powerful" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC2239333477.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-05/Podpage_Goldman.jpeg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Two Heroes Challenging the Powerful.mp3" href="/api/audio/100082"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100082"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100087"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/naomi-oreskes-david-gelles-and-myth-free-markets" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC9301617666.mp3" data-node="100087" data-title="Naomi Oreskes, David Gelles and The Myth of Free Markets" data-image="/files/images/2023-05/Podpage1.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-05/Podpage1.jpg?itok=Yu_Sc16v 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-05/Podpage1.jpg?itok=5_EN7wo7 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-05/Podpage1.jpg?itok=Yu_Sc16v" alt="George Washington&#039;s eyes, as printed on a $1 bill, peak out through a rip" alt="George Washington&#039;s eyes, as printed on a $1 bill, peak out through a rip" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/naomi-oreskes-david-gelles-and-myth-free-markets">Naomi Oreskes, David Gelles and The Myth of Free Markets</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">May 26, 2023</div> </span> Many on the left say that the growing climate crisis is the inevitable result of unbridled capitalism – industries seeking profits above all else. In… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100087" data-title="Naomi Oreskes, David Gelles and The Myth of Free Markets" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC9301617666.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-05/Podpage1.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Naomi Oreskes, David Gelles and The Myth of Free Markets.mp3" href="/api/audio/100087"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100087"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="25303"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/reimagining-capitalism-wealth-power-and-patriarchy" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20200626_cl1_ReimaginingCapitalism.mp3" data-node="25303" data-title="Reimagining Capitalism: Wealth, Power, and Patriarchy" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod-Reimagining Capitalism copy.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod-Reimagining%20Capitalism%20copy.jpg?itok=-X5QXvxP 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod-Reimagining%20Capitalism%20copy.jpg?itok=zgrlYHFI 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1145" height="1101" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod-Reimagining%20Capitalism%20copy.jpg?itok=-X5QXvxP" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/reimagining-capitalism-wealth-power-and-patriarchy">Reimagining Capitalism: Wealth, Power, and Patriarchy</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">June 26, 2020</div> </span> With inequality booming and climate change looming, is it time to rethink capitalism?<br>“We've come to the point where making more stuff in order to… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="25303" data-title="Reimagining Capitalism: Wealth, Power, and Patriarchy" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20200626_cl1_ReimaginingCapitalism.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod-Reimagining%20Capitalism%20copy.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Reimagining Capitalism: Wealth, Power, and Patriarchy.mp3" href="/api/audio/25303"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/25303"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100100"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/cory-booker-taking-big-ag-going-big-climate" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC3046655921.mp3" data-node="100100" data-title="Cory Booker: Taking on Big Ag &amp; Going Big on Climate " data-image="/files/images/2023-06/WebpageNEW_Booker.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-06/WebpageNEW_Booker.jpg?itok=NKranQm2 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-06/WebpageNEW_Booker.jpg?itok=Dnzn5PCC 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-06/WebpageNEW_Booker.jpg?itok=NKranQm2" alt="Cory Booker&#039;s face overlaid on a farmer&#039;s field" alt="Cory Booker&#039;s face overlaid on a farmer&#039;s field" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/cory-booker-taking-big-ag-going-big-climate">Cory Booker: Taking on Big Ag &amp; Going Big on Climate </a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">June 23, 2023</div> </span> Our food and agricultural systems are helping fuel the climate emergency. But climate isn’t the only harm; these systems&nbsp; also impact local… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"> <div class="field__item"><a href="/taxonomy/term/2877" hreflang="en">Visionary Guests</a></div> </div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100100" data-title="Cory Booker: Taking on Big Ag &amp; Going Big on Climate " data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC3046655921.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-06/WebpageNEW_Booker.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Cory Booker: Taking on Big Ag &amp; Going Big on Climate .mp3" href="/api/audio/100100"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100100"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100041"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/white-house-climate-advisor-ali-zaidi-willow-and-biden%E2%80%99s-climate-agenda" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC9787309648.mp3" data-node="100041" data-title="White House Climate Advisor Ali Zaidi On Willow And Biden’s Climate Agenda" data-image="/files/images/2023-04/PodPage_Zaidi.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-04/PodPage_Zaidi.jpg?itok=bs3kR__T 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-04/PodPage_Zaidi.jpg?itok=ktcRyF-x 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-04/PodPage_Zaidi.jpg?itok=bs3kR__T" alt="zaidi pod" alt="zaidi pod" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/white-house-climate-advisor-ali-zaidi-willow-and-biden%E2%80%99s-climate-agenda">White House Climate Advisor Ali Zaidi On Willow And Biden’s Climate Agenda</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">March 31, 2023</div> </span> The Biden administration has recently passed more climate policy than many thought possible. A combination of rebates and incentives are aimed at… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100041" data-title="White House Climate Advisor Ali Zaidi On Willow And Biden’s Climate Agenda" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC9787309648.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-04/PodPage_Zaidi.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="White House Climate Advisor Ali Zaidi On Willow And Biden’s Climate Agenda.mp3" href="/api/audio/100041"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100041"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100110"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/green-power-red-states" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC3624284193.mp3" data-node="100110" data-title="Green Energy / Red States" data-image="/files/images/2023-07/Podpage_0.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-07/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=rKAvlM5A 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-07/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=IE0yy357 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-07/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=rKAvlM5A" alt="A stylized graphic of the U.S. Captiol painted red and blue" alt="A stylized graphic of the U.S. Captiol painted red and blue" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/green-power-red-states">Green Energy / Red States</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">July 14, 2023</div> </span> Billions of dollars from the Inflation Reduction Act have started flowing into renewable energy projects and manufacturing. That’s bringing jobs and… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100110" data-title="Green Energy / Red States" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC3624284193.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-07/Podpage_0.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Green Energy / Red States.mp3" href="/api/audio/100110"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100110"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100106"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/law-and-oil-taking-climate-offenders-court" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC1512100793.mp3" data-node="100106" data-title="Law and Oil: Taking Climate Offenders to Court" data-image="/files/images/2023-07/Podpage.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-07/Podpage.jpg?itok=r4nkl3HO 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-07/Podpage.jpg?itok=V9kXtz_p 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-07/Podpage.jpg?itok=r4nkl3HO" alt="A judge brings her gavel down on its block" alt="A judge brings her gavel down on its block" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/law-and-oil-taking-climate-offenders-court">Law and Oil: Taking Climate Offenders to Court</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">July 7, 2023</div> </span> The last several years have seen a big increase in the number of lawsuits focused on the climate crisis. Some lawsuits challenge governments for… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100106" data-title="Law and Oil: Taking Climate Offenders to Court" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC1512100793.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-07/Podpage.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Law and Oil: Taking Climate Offenders to Court.mp3" href="/api/audio/100106"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100106"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> </div> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=v7PnFYU2 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=uGIVGeOc 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=v7PnFYU2" alt="People stand on a collapsing rock ledge" alt="People stand on a collapsing rock ledge" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-image="/files/images/2023-09/Podpage.png">Play</a> Fri, 08 Sep 2023 01:24:54 +0000 BenTestani 100148 at https://www.climateone.org Justin Bibb https://www.climateone.org/people/justin-bibb Justin Bibb<span class="field field--name-uid field--type-entity-reference field--label-hidden"><span>BenTestani</span></span> <span class="field field--name-created field--type-created field--label-hidden">Thu, 08/10/2023 - 2:27 pm</span> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Justin.png?itok=FAQMfwf9 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-08/Justin.png?itok=IIkq2AwY 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="500" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Justin.png?itok=FAQMfwf9" alt="Justin Bibb" alt="Justin Bibb" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> <div class="field__item"><p id="docs-internal-guid-7762b2af-7fff-ba33-2d8a-8feda43eaa8c"><span><strong>Justin M. Bibb</strong> is the 58th Mayor of Cleveland working to improve public safety, invest in neighborhoods and modernize City Hall. On January 3, 2022, Mayor Bibb took the oath of office as the city’s first millennial mayor.</span></p> <p><span>Mayor Bibb was born and raised on Cleveland’s southeast side in the Mt. Pleasant neighborhood. Over the past 15 years, Mayor Bibb has worked in government, business and the nonprofit sector as an executive and nonprofit leader. He started his career in public service working for President Obama when he was in the U.S. Senate and later at Cuyahoga County as a Special Assistant advising on education and economic development policies. He led the Global Cities Practice at global research firm Gallup, served as Vice President at KeyBank and most recently as Chief Strategy Officer at Urbanova, a startup focused on improving cities.</span></p> <p><span>Mayor Bibb is a proud American University alumnus with an undergraduate degree in Urban Studies. He completed the General Course Programme with an emphasis in Social Policy and Economics from the London School of Economics and is a graduate of Case Western Reserve University. He holds a Master of Business Administration (MBA) and Doctor of Law (JD).</span></p> </div> <a href="https://twitter.com/JustinMBibb" target="_blank"><svg version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" x="0px" y="0px" viewBox="0 0 248 204"><path fill="#ffffff" class="st0" d="M221.95,51.29c0.15,2.17,0.15,4.34,0.15,6.53c0,66.73-50.8,143.69-143.69,143.69v-0.04 C50.97,201.51,24.1,193.65,1,178.83c3.99,0.48,8,0.72,12.02,0.73c22.74,0.02,44.83-7.61,62.72-21.66 c-21.61-0.41-40.56-14.5-47.18-35.07c7.57,1.46,15.37,1.16,22.8-0.87C27.8,117.2,10.85,96.5,10.85,72.46c0-0.22,0-0.43,0-0.64 c7.02,3.91,14.88,6.08,22.92,6.32C11.58,63.31,4.74,33.79,18.14,10.71c25.64,31.55,63.47,50.73,104.08,52.76 c-4.07-17.54,1.49-35.92,14.61-48.25c20.34-19.12,52.33-18.14,71.45,2.19c11.31-2.23,22.15-6.38,32.07-12.26 c-3.77,11.69-11.66,21.62-22.2,27.93c10.01-1.18,19.79-3.86,29-7.95C240.37,35.29,231.83,44.14,221.95,51.29z"/></svg> </a> <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinbibb/" target="_blank"><svg height="72" viewBox="0 0 72 72" width="72" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <defs> <mask id="letters" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"> <rect fill="#fff" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"></rect> <path fill="#000" style="fill: #000 !important" d="M62,62 L51.315625,62 L51.315625,43.8021149 C51.315625,38.8127542 49.4197917,36.0245323 45.4707031,36.0245323 C41.1746094,36.0245323 38.9300781,38.9261103 38.9300781,43.8021149 L38.9300781,62 L28.6333333,62 L28.6333333,27.3333333 L38.9300781,27.3333333 L38.9300781,32.0029283 C38.9300781,32.0029283 42.0260417,26.2742151 49.3825521,26.2742151 C56.7356771,26.2742151 62,30.7644705 62,40.051212 L62,62 Z M16.349349,22.7940133 C12.8420573,22.7940133 10,19.9296567 10,16.3970067 C10,12.8643566 12.8420573,10 16.349349,10 C19.8566406,10 22.6970052,12.8643566 22.6970052,16.3970067 C22.6970052,19.9296567 19.8566406,22.7940133 16.349349,22.7940133 Z M11.0325521,62 L21.769401,62 L21.769401,27.3333333 L11.0325521,27.3333333 L11.0325521,62 Z"/> </mask> </defs> <path id="blue" style="mask-image: url(#letters); mask: url(#letters)" d="M8,72 L64,72 C68.418278,72 72,68.418278 72,64 L72,8 C72,3.581722 68.418278,-8.11624501e-16 64,0 L8,0 C3.581722,8.11624501e-16 -5.41083001e-16,3.581722 0,8 L0,64 C5.41083001e-16,68.418278 3.581722,72 8,72 Z" fill="#fff"/> </svg></a> <h1>Justin Bibb</h1> <div class="field__item"><p>Mayor of Cleveland</p> </div> Thu, 10 Aug 2023 21:27:06 +0000 BenTestani 100130 at https://www.climateone.org David Miller https://www.climateone.org/people/david-miller David Miller<span class="field field--name-uid field--type-entity-reference field--label-hidden"><span>BenTestani</span></span> <span class="field field--name-created field--type-created field--label-hidden">Thu, 08/10/2023 - 2:24 pm</span> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/David.png?itok=A-HIzKZj 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-08/David.png?itok=vqzXWYj2 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="500" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/David.png?itok=A-HIzKZj" alt="David Miller" alt="David Miller" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> <div class="field__item"><p id="docs-internal-guid-e4ece2cf-7fff-267d-41ed-75adc93549fd"><span><strong>David Miller</strong> is the Managing Director of the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy.  He is the author of "Solved, how the great cities of the world are fixing the climate crisis" (University of Toronto Press).</span></p> <p><span>Miller was Mayor of Toronto from 2003 to 2010 and served as Chair of C40 Cities from 2008 until 2010. Under his leadership, Toronto became widely admired internationally for its environmental leadership, economic strength and social integration. He is a leading advocate for the creation of sustainable urban economies.  </span></p> <p><span>Miller has held a variety of public and private positions and served as Future of Cities Global Fellow at Polytechnic Institute of New York University from 2011 to 2014. He has an Honorary Doctorate from the University of Waterloo in Environmental Studies, an Honorary Doctor of Laws from York University and is currently Executive in Residence at the University of Victoria.</span></p> <p><span>David Miller is a Harvard trained economist and professionally is a lawyer. He and his wife, lawyer Jill Arthur, are the parents of two children.</span></p> </div> <a href="https://twitter.com/iamdavidmiller" target="_blank"><svg version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" x="0px" y="0px" viewBox="0 0 248 204"><path fill="#ffffff" class="st0" d="M221.95,51.29c0.15,2.17,0.15,4.34,0.15,6.53c0,66.73-50.8,143.69-143.69,143.69v-0.04 C50.97,201.51,24.1,193.65,1,178.83c3.99,0.48,8,0.72,12.02,0.73c22.74,0.02,44.83-7.61,62.72-21.66 c-21.61-0.41-40.56-14.5-47.18-35.07c7.57,1.46,15.37,1.16,22.8-0.87C27.8,117.2,10.85,96.5,10.85,72.46c0-0.22,0-0.43,0-0.64 c7.02,3.91,14.88,6.08,22.92,6.32C11.58,63.31,4.74,33.79,18.14,10.71c25.64,31.55,63.47,50.73,104.08,52.76 c-4.07-17.54,1.49-35.92,14.61-48.25c20.34-19.12,52.33-18.14,71.45,2.19c11.31-2.23,22.15-6.38,32.07-12.26 c-3.77,11.69-11.66,21.62-22.2,27.93c10.01-1.18,19.79-3.86,29-7.95C240.37,35.29,231.83,44.14,221.95,51.29z"/></svg> </a> <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-miller-476773258/" target="_blank"><svg height="72" viewBox="0 0 72 72" width="72" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <defs> <mask id="letters" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"> <rect fill="#fff" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"></rect> <path fill="#000" style="fill: #000 !important" d="M62,62 L51.315625,62 L51.315625,43.8021149 C51.315625,38.8127542 49.4197917,36.0245323 45.4707031,36.0245323 C41.1746094,36.0245323 38.9300781,38.9261103 38.9300781,43.8021149 L38.9300781,62 L28.6333333,62 L28.6333333,27.3333333 L38.9300781,27.3333333 L38.9300781,32.0029283 C38.9300781,32.0029283 42.0260417,26.2742151 49.3825521,26.2742151 C56.7356771,26.2742151 62,30.7644705 62,40.051212 L62,62 Z M16.349349,22.7940133 C12.8420573,22.7940133 10,19.9296567 10,16.3970067 C10,12.8643566 12.8420573,10 16.349349,10 C19.8566406,10 22.6970052,12.8643566 22.6970052,16.3970067 C22.6970052,19.9296567 19.8566406,22.7940133 16.349349,22.7940133 Z M11.0325521,62 L21.769401,62 L21.769401,27.3333333 L11.0325521,27.3333333 L11.0325521,62 Z"/> </mask> </defs> <path id="blue" style="mask-image: url(#letters); mask: url(#letters)" d="M8,72 L64,72 C68.418278,72 72,68.418278 72,64 L72,8 C72,3.581722 68.418278,-8.11624501e-16 64,0 L8,0 C3.581722,8.11624501e-16 -5.41083001e-16,3.581722 0,8 L0,64 C5.41083001e-16,68.418278 3.581722,72 8,72 Z" fill="#fff"/> </svg></a> <h1>David Miller</h1> <div class="field__item"><p>Former Mayor of Toronto</p> </div> Thu, 10 Aug 2023 21:24:54 +0000 BenTestani 100129 at https://www.climateone.org Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City https://www.climateone.org/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City<span class="field field--name-uid field--type-entity-reference field--label-hidden"><span>BenTestani</span></span> <span class="field field--name-created field--type-created field--label-hidden">Thu, 08/10/2023 - 2:12 pm</span> <div class="field__item">&nbsp;</div> <div class="field__item"><p id="docs-internal-guid-15c6046e-7fff-2bc6-31fb-46b3d023c2e8"><span>Can you imagine if everything you needed in your everyday life was just a walk or bike ride away? That’s the goal of the 15-minute City, a new name for an old idea. Reducing the need for cars cuts emissions and gets autos off of the roads, which is a boon for safety, air quality and the climate. But, as is often the case, good ideas become a lot more difficult when you have to implement them in real places, with real people, who don’t always share the enthusiasm for the idea. What will it take to make compact, walkable cities a reality in the U.S., where the car is king?</span></p> <p id="docs-internal-guid-15c6046e-7fff-2bc6-31fb-46b3d023c2e8"><em><span>This episode is underwritten by ClimateWorks.</span></em></p> </div> <div class="cards cards_sideswipe small_square"> <div class="container title"> <h2>Guests</h2> </div> <div class="container sideswipe"><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="25672"> <figure> <a href="/people/beth-osborne"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Beth.png?itok=WKoa-zbf 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-08/Beth.png?itok=3KDngwua 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="500" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Beth.png?itok=WKoa-zbf" alt="Beth Osborne" alt="Beth Osborne" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/beth-osborne">Beth Osborne</a></h1> <div class="title">Director, Transportation for America</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="100129"> <figure> <a href="/people/david-miller"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/David.png?itok=A-HIzKZj 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-08/David.png?itok=vqzXWYj2 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="500" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/David.png?itok=A-HIzKZj" alt="David Miller" alt="David Miller" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/david-miller">David Miller</a></h1> <div class="title">Former Mayor of Toronto</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="100130"> <figure> <a href="/people/justin-bibb"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Justin.png?itok=FAQMfwf9 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-08/Justin.png?itok=IIkq2AwY 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="500" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Justin.png?itok=FAQMfwf9" alt="Justin Bibb" alt="Justin Bibb" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/justin-bibb">Justin Bibb</a></h1> <div class="title">Mayor of Cleveland</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="100131"> <figure> <a href="/people/henry-grabar"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Henry.png?itok=hZHSWotF 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-08/Henry.png?itok=kRFbm8do 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="500" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Henry.png?itok=hZHSWotF" alt="Henry Grabar" alt="Henry Grabar" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/henry-grabar">Henry Grabar</a></h1> <div class="title">Author of Paved Paradise: How Parking Explains the World.</div> </article> </div><div class="col empty"></div> </div> </div><h1 class="node__title">Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City</h1> <div class="field__item"><time datetime="2023-08-11T12:00:00Z" class="datetime">08/11/2023</time> </div> <div class="field-resources field--label-hidden field__items"> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-677" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://tertulia.com/book/paved-paradise-how-parking-explains-the-world-henry-grabar/9781984881137?affiliate_id=atl-347" target="_blank">Paved Paradise: How Parking Explains the World. (tertulia.com)</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-678" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://www.fastcompany.com/90823679/cleveland-15-minute-city" target="_blank">Inside Cleveland’s Plans to be a 15-minute City (fastcompany.com)</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-679" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://www.c40.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/C40-Cities-Annual-Report-2022_Published-Online-31-Mar-2023.pdf" target="_blank">C40 Annual Report (c40.org)</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-680" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://smartgrowthamerica.org/program/divided-by-design/" target="_blank">Transportation for America: Divided by Design Report (smartgrowthamerica.org)</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-681" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-15-minute-city-conspiracy-162fd388f0c435a8289cc9ea213f92ee" target="_blank">Fact Focus: Conspiracies misconstrue ‘15-minute city’ idea (apnews.com)</a></div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="share-this"> <div><a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A//www.climateone.org/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city&amp;text=Just%20a%20Walk%20or%20Bike%20Ride%20Away%3A%20The%2015-Minute%20City" target="_blank"><svg version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" x="0px" y="0px" viewBox="0 0 248 204"><path fill="#ffffff" class="st0" d="M221.95,51.29c0.15,2.17,0.15,4.34,0.15,6.53c0,66.73-50.8,143.69-143.69,143.69v-0.04 C50.97,201.51,24.1,193.65,1,178.83c3.99,0.48,8,0.72,12.02,0.73c22.74,0.02,44.83-7.61,62.72-21.66 c-21.61-0.41-40.56-14.5-47.18-35.07c7.57,1.46,15.37,1.16,22.8-0.87C27.8,117.2,10.85,96.5,10.85,72.46c0-0.22,0-0.43,0-0.64 c7.02,3.91,14.88,6.08,22.92,6.32C11.58,63.31,4.74,33.79,18.14,10.71c25.64,31.55,63.47,50.73,104.08,52.76 c-4.07-17.54,1.49-35.92,14.61-48.25c20.34-19.12,52.33-18.14,71.45,2.19c11.31-2.23,22.15-6.38,32.07-12.26 c-3.77,11.69-11.66,21.62-22.2,27.93c10.01-1.18,19.79-3.86,29-7.95C240.37,35.29,231.83,44.14,221.95,51.29z"/></svg></a></div> <div><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=1&amp;url=https%3A//www.climateone.org/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city&amp;title=Just%20a%20Walk%20or%20Bike%20Ride%20Away%3A%20The%2015-Minute%20City" target="_blank"><svg height="72" viewBox="0 0 72 72" width="72" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><defs><mask id="letters" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"><rect fill="#fff" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"></rect><path fill="#000" style="fill: #000 !important" d="M62,62 L51.315625,62 L51.315625,43.8021149 C51.315625,38.8127542 49.4197917,36.0245323 45.4707031,36.0245323 C41.1746094,36.0245323 38.9300781,38.9261103 38.9300781,43.8021149 L38.9300781,62 L28.6333333,62 L28.6333333,27.3333333 L38.9300781,27.3333333 L38.9300781,32.0029283 C38.9300781,32.0029283 42.0260417,26.2742151 49.3825521,26.2742151 C56.7356771,26.2742151 62,30.7644705 62,40.051212 L62,62 Z M16.349349,22.7940133 C12.8420573,22.7940133 10,19.9296567 10,16.3970067 C10,12.8643566 12.8420573,10 16.349349,10 C19.8566406,10 22.6970052,12.8643566 22.6970052,16.3970067 C22.6970052,19.9296567 19.8566406,22.7940133 16.349349,22.7940133 Z M11.0325521,62 L21.769401,62 L21.769401,27.3333333 L11.0325521,27.3333333 L11.0325521,62 Z"/></mask></defs><path id="blue" style="mask-image: url(#letters); 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Please check the actual audio before quoting it.</em></p> <p id="docs-internal-guid-4f6ea927-7fff-9184-0774-2bd0ce9d851a"><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: This is Climate One. I’m Greg Dalton.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span>And I’m Ariana Brocious. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>:  We have a tendency to look toward new or future technology to solve today’s problems. But sometimes reverting to older, simpler ways of living can move us forward. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span>this week we’re talking about one of those ideas: compact walkable cities. Some have dubbed the concept the 15-minute city. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>:  It’s a new name for an old idea – that everything you need in day-to-day life should be within a 15 minute walk or bike ride. </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>:</strong><span> It's unbelievably luxurious to not have to get in your car over and over for every single thing you need.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: That’s <a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>, Director of Transportation for America. We’ll hear more from her later in the episode. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:  </strong><span>Reducing the need for cars cuts emissions and gets cars off the road. And that’s not only good for public health and the climate, it creates more equitable spaces as well.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/david-miller" hreflang="en">David Miller</a>: </strong><span>By doing the right thing for climate, which is encouraging public transport, encouraging these kinds of neighborhoods that are denser, you're also building a city where people from all walks of life have a real chance.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span>That’s <a href="/people/david-miller" hreflang="en">David Miller</a>,</span><strong> </strong><span>Managing Director for C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy, and Former Mayor of Toronto. We’ll hear my conversation with David later in the episode. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: In the U.S. many of our urban areas were built with car as king, which makes it very difficult to achieve the 15-minute goal of walking or biking. Ariana, I’m curious how you get around in Tucson, where you live. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:  </strong><span>You know, it’s a mix. There are plenty of places that I can walk to or bike to, because I live sort of in the center of town. But realistically, it’s a city built for cars, and to get to most places, you have to drive, and most people here rely on cars as their primary form of transportation. How about you, Greg?</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: Since COVID, I split my time between two places: San Francisco, highly walkable, lots of restaurants, services, grocery stores in a ten-minute walk. One day a week I ride my e-bike into the office. Other times I’m out in a rural area by choice, which is beautiful and bucolic and remote. And it’s at least 20 minutes in the car to go anywhere or do anything.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:  </strong><span>That car dependence is really common, and yet this desire for more walkable, more bike-friendly cities is also really common. More than half of Americans surveyed by YouGov want a 15-minute city. So how can we develop our urban spaces to be more compact, walkable, and convenient? </span></p> <p><span>This episode is underwritten by ClimateWorks</span></p> <p><strong> </strong></p> <p><span>[music change]</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: To find out how to achieve the ideal of a 15-minute city, let's start with an unexpected yet crucial aspect of every place where people live: parking. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span>It may not be something you spend a lot of time thinking about, but parking lots take up lots of space, and parking requirements can make building affordable housing nearly impossible. <a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a> is a Staff Writer for Slate and Author of Paved Paradise: How Parking Explains the World. </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> I think it goes back to the 1950s with suburbanization, right? At the time. Parking is a serious, serious challenge. In most American cities, parking meters are everywhere, and yet in spite of that, um, the rise of the automobile has collided with an urban environment that was not designed to accommodate automobiles. It's at this point that in the suburbs, developers of malls begin to offer free parking. Now, this at the time is, uh, sort of revelatory, not just because the parking is free, but also because it's ample. It's plentiful, right? I mean, we're talking about land uses where sometimes half the parcel is just used for parking. That kind of thing would never be feasible or affordable at the center of, you know, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles at that time. So these malls take off and uh, cities freak out. And they decide that free parking, if it's gonna be offered in the suburbs, needs to be their standard as well to be able to keep up. And so cities start ripping out their parking meters at the behest of local merchants and before you know it, it becomes pretty much the standard everywhere in the country that parking ought to be free. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> And what effect does that have on emissions? </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> Free parking is one of the greatest subsidies towards driving. Parking may be free to you, the user when you arrive in your car, but it's not free to build, right? I mean, it costs tens of thousands of dollars to build structured parking, surface parking costs, $5,000 per space. So the amount of subsidy that's embedded, all that free parking that's distributed to drivers as a hidden inducement to continue driving and to continue burning fossil fuels is enormous. We're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars of incentives to keep driving. Now, as you know, transportation is the country's largest source of greenhouse gas emissions. And so, um, to the extent that free parking is a massive subsidy for driving, it's a huge contributor to, um, to climate change And climate change is only a part of the externalities of driving, uh, as it concerns the environment, right? I mean, there's also local particulate pollution like PM 2.5 and PM 10. And then there's, there's also car crashes, obviously. And, and the tens of thousands of Americans who are killed are injured by automobiles every year. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> help us understand why there is this sort of feedback loop with parking requirements, um, and how housing and how that dictates what kinds of housing can be built, how much and what parts of town and how that, when, what that actually makes the cities begin to look and feel like.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> There are two things to understand about parking that will help you see the way it interacts with architecture, uh, and with housing types, housing costs, and the types of apartments that get built. The first is that parking takes up a lot of space. The average parking spot, including ingress and egress, is sometimes calculated to be 250 or 300 square feet. So, two of those is the size of a studio or one bedroom apartment. So structured parking in, um, you know, a big, a big city could cost $40,000 a stall. Underground parking these days can cost six figures per parking space. So both of these factors – </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> We should just pause there. That's enormous. That's crazy to think that it actually costs that much per parking space. </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> It's crazy. And it's really important because I think a lot of the time people see a parking shortage in their neighborhood and their reaction is, well, why don't they just build more parking? Why don't we just ask every new apartment building in this neighborhood to build a giant parking garage, solve the parking problem? Well, it turns out that that's really, really expensive and it contributes a lot to raising the cost of housing, and this is where. There is this interplay between parking and housing. If you require all this parking, you're adding a massive cost onto the new housing that gets built. So you're changing the price point at which those units eventually hit the market, but you're also dictating the form of that housing because the old style vernacular, so-called missing middle housing that characterized American residential neighborhoods in the 1910s, twenties, et cetera, that kind of housing – so that's like, uh, painted ladies in San Francisco or three flats in Chicago, triple Deckers in Boston, brownstones in New York – all this stuff becomes impossible to build when you require, uh, x amount of spaces per new unit. So requiring parking both then drives up the cost of housing, but also dictates the type of housing that gets built. And certain types of infill housing simply become impossible to produce. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> And that also, of course, as you're saying, that affects affordability, which means that, uh, the diversity of the neighborhood in many cases,because lower income or marginalized communities just simply cannot afford to be in some of these neighborhoods anymore.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> That's right. One of the things that happens is that the type of housing that gets produced skews towards the high end because if you are requiring parking with every unit, you are just adding on a big fixed cost right at the start of the project. And if you are in charge of that development, all of a sudden you've just built in a pretty expensive amenity that's you are already aiming at a kind of higher segment of the market than you would be if you were free to choose what you wanted to build. It does tend to happen that, uh, housing without parking included, is a kind of naturally occurring source of affordable housing to the extent that it gives tenants, um, the option, uh, to find parking themselves if they so choose. And, and I think that's a, that's a beneficial situation. I mean, until I. 10 years ago, it was virtually impossible to move into a place, a newly built place in an American city where you had the option of not having a parking space included with your unit. We were basically forcing every single residential tenant or home buyer in the United States that they had to have a parking space. So just think about the effect on driving that that creates, I mean, it is just a massive down payment towards owning a car. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> And cars by themselves are expensive to own and maintain, so that's another cost. In big cities in particular, you say that we've done parking backwards, where curbside parking is often free and garages are very expensive. Why shouldn't it be that way? </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> Well, curbside parking is everybody's first choice, right? I mean, the curb is this immensely valuable point of access where you're both, this is kind of basic, but you're both adjacent to the road, right? So it's really easy to get to, but you're also adjacent to the sidewalk and to the stores and the restaurants, and the bars and all the things that you came to the city to do in the first place. Now, curbside parking is also often very, very cheap, if not free. If it's metered, it might cost a dollar or a dollar 50 an hour. Whereas a garage might cost, you know, 10, $12 an hour and sometimes more in big cities. Now, one of the results of that is that any driver who's driving downtown is not only incentivized to look first for curbside parking because that's the preferable choice, but also because it's the cheaper choice. And that should be backwards because what happens when, when every driver coming into town is financially incentivized to look for curbside parking is you get a huge amount of congestion from people circling the block, looking for these hard to find parking spaces. Now, if you were to raise the price curbside parking and lower the price of garage parking, then those prices would more accurately align with people's preferences for where they wanna park. People who are driving in who are, uh, more, uh, cost conscious budget consumers of parking spaces would head straight for the garage without even looking, uh, for curbside parking. And those who prioritize access, who have a busy appointment to get to or, or just absolutely need to be someplace at a certain time would, would head straight for the curb. And, and at the proper price, they would be able to find a spot the moment they arrived. Hmm. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> how does all this parking affect public transportation? Both the availability of it, where it can be built, and the use of it by, by people who live in cities. </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> Free parking is an absolute public transit killer. It is one of the number one determinants of whether people will drive. And everywhere we look at public transit, ridership statistics, whether people have free parking on one or the other end of their trip is a major determinant of whether they're going to use that transit system. So if you provide transit, but you also provide pre parking, you are dooming that transit system. To fail. Now, there's another thing that happens, which is that free parking and parking generally takes up a lot of space in the urban environment. And so the more parking you provide, the less walkable the neighborhood becomes. The lower the density of amenities, uh, the lower density of people. Um, and, and therefore the less useful public transit becomes. And I think we've all experienced that as well, where you look at some destination and it turns out to be out in some suburban strip mall, and maybe you could get within 300 meters, um, arriving by public transit, but then you'd have to walk through a sea of parking lots to get there. So  there's at least two ways in which the provision of parking. Really works at, at counter purposes to having a vibrant and well-used public transit system. I think there are cases in cities where there are policy decisions to be taken that are win-win for everybody, but in terms of making public transit work,you really need to crack down on the amount of free parking that's available as an alternative.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> So I'm curious, you know, you're based in Paris in the moment, you're based in Paris at the moment. I'm wondering how that offers you a, if that offers you a chance to do a comparison here where, you know, is this obsession with parking a US phenomenon? Do you see it handled differently in a old established city like Paris?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> I think French people and Europeans in general are just as obsessed with parking as Americans are. When you walk around Paris, one of the first things that you notice as a stranger is that every single sidewalk is lined about every eight feet with a three and a half foot tall iron bar. You think, what are these things? It turns out those are designed to stop people from parking on the sidewalks because if they weren't there, and presumably at one point they weren't, people would just park on absolutely every available square inch of space. And in fact, that was once the way people parked in Paris too. Most of people's, uh, most of these sort of iconic public spaces in Paris, Invalides the Place Vendome, the plaza in front of Notre Dame, all these spaces were once parking lots. Now they are beloved public spaces and the parking has been moved underground. So I don't think that Europeans have some innate resistance to car culture. I think they like driving, uh, just as much as Americans do. it's just that they are presented with a lot more options. And that's not just about the quality of the public transit, which admittedly. Is higher than it is in most American cities. But it's also about the fact that the neighborhoods are just designed to make it safe and easy to walk or bike. And that is irrespective of the question of whether people own cars or whether there even exists public transit. It's just a question of local level neighborhood design, and that I think is a lesson that's very applicable to American cities and even some American suburbs. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> If we're taking stock of what cities are doing now, we mentioned parking requirements. Where are we in this moment in terms of how that's being handled at city levels in the US? Are you seeing momentum toward a different kind of, of, um, of building a different kind of civic life and getting rid of some of this parking? </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> One of the most basic reforms has been to get rid of the laws that tell developers how much parking they must build with every single apartment building, tennis court, funeral home, whatever it is. That is a very basic step, but it's a very necessary step because what those laws have produced over their 60 plus year existence is both a cost and inflationary costs spiral with everything that gets built because parking costs a lot, um, but also a deterioration of the urban environment to create a lot of parking. Which study after study has shown, um, very rarely gets, uh, used to its full capacity. So, and that's because the laws intentionally err on the side of creating too much parking. To avoid, uh, any chance of a parking shortage. So undoing those laws is something that's happening right now. You know, there's this organization called the Parking Reform Network that is working on this exact thing, so that's the low hanging fruit. I think after that, the challenging thing is to say, what do we want to do with our streets? Because this is really where parking intersects with alternatives to driving, and I think this is one of the big questions people have is, well, okay, I live in a suburb. I have two cars. I need them to get to work. I'm not against the idea of driving less or being less reliant on parking. But I don't feel like I have a choice, and this is where cities need to step up and say, we're gonna redo these roads to make people feel comfortable, to make them feel safe. Riding an electrical bike, riding in a golf cart, walking, right? I mean, something as basic as walking, parking policy is a major impediment towards creating safe sidewalks, safe intersections, all this stuff.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Just jumping back to this idea of paying for parking for a second, I think one thing that you write about in the book is that there's this sort of irony that cities make more in parking violations than they do in actually charging for like metered parking. So that being that as it is, What happens with all that money? How could that money be used to actually improve, uh, you know, the design of city streets to facilitate more walking and biking and, and public transit? </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> Donald Schoup, the godfather of parking studies, says that for people to accept the idea that parking meters are good for the city, um, it's not enough that they bring order to a congested curb where people have been leaving their cars for days at a time, parking meters. Also, he says, ought to provide revenue that goes into local public improvements, so that every time somebody pays into a public parking meter, or the merchants alongside, um, are convinced that they ought to approve public parking meters. That money gets funneled right back into the neighborhood and goes into those types of neighborhood improvements. Now, what could those be? I mean, frankly, the sky's the limit. We have been so accustomed to thinking of streets as being exclusively for the use of storing automobiles and also, uh, them driving through now and again, uh, that we've forgotten that they were once these very vibrant, multipurpose spaces. And so I think, well, I don't need to imagine it. Right. I mean, lots of cities are making these changes. And they are opening up streets for restaurant seating. They're building playgrounds, they're planting trees, they're, uh, closing down streets, traffic outside schools, um, creating more public space, greener public space. All these things are on the table and, and more, I mean, if you, you could even think about, uh, in places that are really challenged for, um, for housing, whether some of this roadway space, uh, might not be better served, uh, by, by, by converting it into parcels that could be developed as affordable housing or something like that.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> So I have sort of a particular question I live in, in Tucson, which is a city thatas a lot of sprawl, has a ton of parking, a lot of seas of asphalt. Um, and there's one in particular that I see sometimes that I go, there's a big chain of big box stores and there's a section of this parking lot that I swear never gets used. I mean, I think it's probably, um, there's just never enough traffic in this strip of commerce to require it. Have you seen areas like that be reclaimed either by the neighborhood to build a house there or make a little park? I mean, are there good examples of, um, reexamining some of these places that just even aren't even used and, and making something. You know, better out of it?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> I mean, the most basic one that comes to mind is, you know, I grew up in New York City, which used to be full of parking lots in the 1970s and eighties, and they've almost all since been redeveloped. Now I think that's beginning to happen in the suburbs as well. I. In particular with old malls, right? Because with old malls you have both a giant parking lot, but also a parcel that's so large that it actually offers, offers an opportunity to create almost a, a complete little neighborhood unit where you might even be able to support a little bit of community oriented retail or an amenity, like a public pool or a library of school or something like that. So I think there's an enormous amount of potential there. One of the things that stops us from happening is neighbors are very, very reluctant to see anything take the place of parking. They're convinced that they suffer from a shortage of parking, and no amount of study seems to correct this interpretation, and unfortunately, it serves as an obstacle even to, um, letting new neighbors move into the neighborhood. I see this all the time at community meetings in the United States where a new apartment building gets proposed and neighbors will stand up and say, we can't allow this because it doesn't have enough parking. I mean, I understand that everybody wants enough parking and that this is an important priority, but are we really gonna let it stand in the way of creating housing for our fellow neighbors?</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> <a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a> is a staff writer at Slate and author of Paved Paradise, how Parking Explains the World. Thanks so much for joining us on Climate One.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/henry-grabar" hreflang="en">Henry Grabar</a>:</strong><span> Thanks for having me. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: You’re listening to a Climate One conversation about compact cities. If you missed a previous episode, or want to hear more of Climate One’s empowering conversations, subscribe to our podcast wherever you get your pods. </span></p> <p><span>Please help us get people talking more about climate by giving us a rating or review. You can do it right now on your device. You can also help by sending a link to this episode to a friend. On our new website you can create and share playlists focused on topics including food, energy, EVs, activism. </span></p> <p><span>Coming up, how might we rein in urban sprawl and redevelop neighborhoods to be more compact?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>: </strong><span>We’re the nation that reversed rivers. The notion that we can’t take down a highway and figure out a way to redesign that community is silly.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: That’s up next, when Climate One continues.</span></p> <p><span>This is Climate One. I’m Greg Dalton </span></p> <p><span>In the US, transportation accounts for more climate-disrupting pollution than any other sector, so the 15-minute city could be a huge climate lever – and offer quality of life improvements too.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> And if enough people shifted their mode of transport, it would be safer for everyone – because pedestrian and bike deaths already make up nearly </span><a href="https://highways.dot.gov/safety/pedestrian-bicyclist"><span>20 percent</span></a><span> of annual traffic fatalities, and those figures have been rising. </span></p> <p><span>Moving at the pace of your feet or a bike offers so many benefits – low impact exercise, neighborhood connection, better air quality. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: Walking really is great. To better understand how we could improve the ways we get around our cities, I spoke with <a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>, Director of Transportation for America. </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>:</strong><span> We actually just released a report called Divided by Design that talked about the building of the highway system and how so much of it was built through the center of cities, which is not how it was initially conceived. And often was done in an effort to connect new suburbanites to downtown retail centers that might be struggling. But also, too many leaders thought it might be a great opportunity to clear black and brown neighborhoods while they were at it. And they very effectively did so and were quoted in explaining their goals there. And in doing so, it cut off short trips. So many of these highways, and even the big roads those of us in transportation call arterial roadways, but most people just think of them as those big roads that connect neighborhoods, those often 5, 6-lane surface roads. They create massive barriers so that just crossing the street is a challenge. And we cut off the ability to simply cross the street in order to get people from outside your community through your community to some other community as fast as possible so that the transportation infrastructure is not facilitating movement for you in your neighborhood. But for someone else to get somewhere else. Not great for your neighborhood's economy if you have a local business trip. But your neighborhood is not what’s being valued. It's always someone someplace else going someplace else. The place is unfortunately never the priority in the way we approach transportation. And as a result, even what should be a short trip. A block across that big highway or roadway is a huge trip to go out of the way to find a safe place to cross if there's a place to cross at all. And therefore, what used to be an easy walking trip is now a driving trip. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> That report Divided by Design was quite powerful, particularly looking at the visualization of how I-20 really paved over neighborhoods and green belts in Atlanta I know that story, but actually seeing it unfold was quite powerful. There's a call recently to take down I-45. There’s Adam Paul Susaneck, architectural designer and the founder of Segregation by Design wrote a piece at the New York Times saying Mr. Biden, tear down this highway speaking of I-45 what separates Black and White and White and Hispanic communities. So we’re taking down dams in this country that are at the end of their useful life. We built these freeways through cities, can they come down is that too far-fetched of an idea?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>:</strong><span> Well, we’re the nation that reversed rivers. The notion that we can’t take down a highway and figure out a way to redesign that community is silly. Of course, we can do anything we want. Unfortunately, we often used our skill and our engineering know-how to do things that aren't so great as opposed to figuring out clever ways to repair damage we've done in the past. We are in a point of incredible change right now post COVID. People are changing their work habits. They are changing their travel habits. And we should take advantage of that to think about whether or not we still need what people thought was a great idea back in the 1940s, 50s, 60s, 70s. In many cases turned out to be pretty damaging and maybe revision how we want that community to work. Do we want it to be available to move people in trucks through the city or to generate jobs and housing and taxes and an economy? And that's the trade-off when you cover a vast landscape with interchanges and highway is that land is not available to create a robust economy.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Right. And there’s some talk of taking down an elevated highway in San Francisco and all the tax revenue the city would get if there were buildings rather than highways which cost money rather than generate money if they were, you know, shops and restaurants paying property tax. Your report also mentions that there are 28 million Americans that do not have access to a car. These are not just people in urban areas. Majority of counties with zero car households are in rural areas. What does that tell us about changes we need to the transit systems?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>:</strong><span> I think a lot of what we need to do is check some of our assumptions at the door. The notion that it's only urbanites that need alternatives is really dismissive of the rural population. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people who consider themselves rural champions know very little about rural areas and don't think very hard about those rural towns and those places that have often been abandoned by the very policies put in place supposedly to benefit them. And I also think it's an undercounting of those who desperately need alternatives to the car. You don't have to be a household without a car to not have access to a car. If you're a family of five and you have one car, you need alternatives. You don't have what some people fortunately have. They might have a parent in the household that can chauffeur the kids all around the region all day long and don't have, you know, a job to go to, or something like that. But most people don't have that and most families of 4 or 5 don’t have 4 or 5 cars. So we need alternatives for car light households and for maybe households that want to go car light because, like mine, who had four cars for a family of five maybe would like to translate that money into savings for college, as opposed to the cost of maintaining all those vehicles just to address your everyday needs. Now in terms of transit, one of the big mistakes we made with transits at the beginning of the transit program is that we viewed it as a benefit to the driver. The goal was to take people off the highways during the white-collar commute. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Get people out of my way. You take a bus so I can drive freely. Thank you.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>:</strong><span> Exactly. That's how we justified it because the notion that the Fed should be involved in transit has always been harder to sell when the Feds involved in building out the roads and the highways. And the work trip was only 20% of trips before COVID. Those other 80% of trips are really what turns a no car household into a household that needs to have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 cars. Because it’s those trips to everything else that aren't served by transit that could be walkable or bikeable except for the roadways are so disconnected and busy and fast that they're too scary or too hard to walk on. And so, you know, you might be able to get to work on the bus, but you can't then pick your kid up from school and go to the grocery and run past the shoe store because your kid unexpectedly grew out of their size 6 shoes and are suddenly a size 8 like my son just went through. And those are the things not served by transit. Post-COVID, we had even fewer people making the commute into work during rush hour, which is the traffic congestion we use to justify most of our highway building. And it might be time to, A, reconsider whether we need all those capacities on those highways if fewer people are going to be using it during the busiest time or it’s not going to be that busy a time. But also, how to get transit to serve all of those other trips those more local neighborhood trips. I think about, you know, like I said we build our roadways to get people from someplace else through your neighborhood to someplace else. Our transit operates the same way. It's all about that longer distance commute and not just making easy to hop on that bus that just comes around regularly and goes through all the retail areas in your neighborhood so it's easy to go to the grocery for that quick trip and not a big event to do that or a dangerous trip or one you need to bum a ride off of a friend.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law could have been an opportunity to reset the agenda but still billions went to highways. 39 billion tag for public transit and 110 billion highways, roads and bridges. How is that going to play out and how is that going to affect compact walkable cities?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>:</strong><span> Yeah, it’s a really good question. If you look at the safety record of roadways it tends to be those state-owned arterial roadways where the most fatalities occur. Those are the ones where you combine high speed with lots of points of conflict. Those parked cars on the side of the road everyone is a point of conflict. Every crossing every entrance to a business driveway, a parking lot. Every crossroad is a point of conflict. And we're zipping people through these communities at 40, 45, 50, 55 mph and then we don't have any idea why they're dangerous. Back in the 1950s we built the highways because we knew you would never put people through surface streets at 55 mph that would be unsafe and crazy. You build a separated system for that. That's how you make high-speed safe. In your cities in your town and your villages you have slow traffic because it's supposed to be locally serving. And so much of our system being a highway system that applies those highway rules in a one-size-fits-all way to every roadway funded by the federal program results in us building highways where they’re patently inappropriate and dangerous. There is opportunity however, and that would be for at least US DOT to change a lot of their standards and rules and measures: Things like the value of time which is really how fast are the cars going could be much more equitable if we were really looking at the time that a trip takes by all modes of travel. Right now, we just look to see if the cars are going fast. And if they're going faster, we assume there's a time savings. Even if we sped up the travel by making you go out of your way like no left turns all the way down the arterial. And so you have to take three right-hand turns or you have to go wildly out of your way to make that left-hand turn and you lose time, they count that as time savings because speed must be good. If US DOT would take seriously the barriers they cause and help people value the other things that make communities convenient, equitable and wonderful to be in great and attracting the businesses that create great places, it would be very helpful to those states and localities that are interested in valuing those things. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Yeah, certainly changed my thinking about one-way street which I used to think as a motorist are great. But then when you think about one-way streets cars go faster and they're not nice places to cross or walk along. And they’re not the streets at least that I know that are vibrant with street life because of the noise and speed of those cars. That’s a real deterrent to kind of that vibrant sidewalk life. New York City has considered implementing congestion pricing for cars driving into Midtown or Downtown Manhattan will be the first US city to adopt a policy like that. It does exist in some cities over I think London and Singapore. So what do you think of congestion pricing as a tool to reduce the number of cars on the city streets?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>:</strong><span> You know, I’m a real fan of using market forces to help people understand the cost of various decisions. It works in so many ways. Private business uses this all the time. If you look at Uber and Lyft, they have surge pricing. When they're very busy they say hey, if you need us now, we’ll find someone but it's gonna cost you more to get that driver. And a lot of times people say you know what I got no choice I got to travel right now so I’m going to pay the price. And then a lot of times people say, I don’t have to go right now, maybe I'll just wait and see that price come down. We’ve given people such a sense of entitlement when driving and using our roadways that we just think everything should be open all the time no matter how many people are making that trip at the exact same time, which was always silly. And the notion of congestion pricing is to say, look, if you're trying to take a discretionary trip when everyone is on the road to get to work or whatever it may be, you need to decide if it really has to happen at this exact moment because you're being disruptive to the whole system. If you have to do it at this exact moment if it's that important this is the price to do it because we have limited space, we have limited money to supply paved routes for people driving. And if you can put it off, you’re going to save money. That's a great way to shepherd the taxpayer dollars to help people say, oh, if I just make that trip at a different time of day it costs less to the whole system, which means my tax dollars don't have to go to constantly expand that system trying to accommodate infinite trips. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong><span>So that’s a market approach. Another approach is more regulatory approach. New York has talked about taking 25% of the streets and making them car free by 2025. What do you think of that and what transit changes would need to be made? </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>: </strong><span>What I’d love to see in transportation in particular is a much more experimental approach. My organization works with states and localities in doing kind of pop up demonstrations and trying things out to see what happens. It’s useful because you're not going from 10 years of conversation to hundreds of millions of dollars in expenditures. That's scary. That's intimidating. It instead is saying let's do something temporary and see what it's like and invite people to experience and tell us what they like and what they don't like. It’s much more useful for the public to engage in because unless you’re a total transportation nerd, looking at an engineering sketch is not terribly accessible to most people. And even if you are an engineering nerd we just talked about how much more visceral and impactful it was to look at animations and visual examples real interactive examples of what an investment might mean for the community, as opposed to a static picture or a sketch. So we do with cities we’re working with four states right now Connecticut, California, Tennessee and Alaska. And they do pop up demonstration projects to slow traffic in areas where there's a lot of pedestrian activity and there's been some danger. And they are able to learn how different designs that they might not have tried in that context before might make that more visible to the drivers so they know where to look out for people and safer for the pedestrian. And then they can take that information and bring it to their programs, and make these easier to do going forward. In the case of closing streets, we had a little bit of experimentation through COVID where we tried some of that out. But I'd love to see more cities try that in "a more normal" environment and see what it's like and then invite the public in to say what they like and what they don't like. Is it something that needs to be permanent? Is it something that maybe we do on the weekends? Is it something that we do from certain times of day? Are there certain blocks where it works better than others? The more flexible and lithe we can be in the system so that we can experiment try different things out. The better result we’re going to get. And what I've seen since the beginning of my career again is years of talking about something theoretical that really nobody, including the experts fully understand what the impact will be and then a massive expenditure with our fingers crossed. It's just, it's not effective. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Personal mobility is being electrified both in the forms of EVs. About 6% of new car sales, scooters and e-bikes popping up all over the place. Does electrification enable compact cities because you can hop around do these short hops not served by transit like you're talking about. Or does it enable sprawl because I say whoa, my commute is zero emission because I’m in an EV.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>:</strong><span> That’s a great question. Thank you for including scooters and bikes in that, so often forgotten in the electrification debate. You know the drivetrain of the car doesn't really have an impact on how the car is used. We keep looking for a technology that will get us out of making real decisions and it doesn't exist. An electric car can be utilized in a very efficient system and it will be utilized in various efficient systems in many of our downtowns in many European and Asian cities, and it will be utilizing extraordinarily inefficient systems as well. The technology doesn't care and it's not here to save us. It really is on us and our elected representatives and our zoning and transportation officials to actually make decisions about whether or not our priority is to make cars move fast or help people get where they're going. And the two are often in conflict.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> You live in Washington DC. How does it compare to what you would consider to be the ideal city?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>:</strong><span> Oh, well, that’s a tough question. I do I live in DC. I live right smack in the middle of it in Ward 1. And in many ways, I'm quite spoiled because I really don't have to leave my neighborhood for much. If I need to go to a hardware store, I have to go one neighborhood south but I can easily just take the bus or it’s a long walk but pretty much everything I need. If I needed to buy paint to paint my room it’s a walk away. Everything's right there. And it's unbelievably luxurious to not have to get in your car over and over for every single thing you need. It's also wonderful and that you know recently I had to take care of something that kind of came up suddenly and it didn't disrupt my whole family. My 15-year-old could still get herself to her sleepover and my son could still get himself over at his friend's house because things are close and they’re transit-served and they're not wholly reliant on me as their chauffeur for everything. It's really delightful and it's quite different to my experience growing up in a first ring suburb of New Orleans, where I really, I had to have access to someone to drive me around to get to anything I needed. To the point that I went to a magnet school called Ben Franklin and there was a city-paid school bus that would take people where I lived in Algiers over to school. And then the state decided they couldn't afford all those buses so they canceled them and you could see that poorer kids had to give up going to one of the best schools in the state and in the country. And those of us who had more resources could charter our own bus to get the rest of us to school. These barriers are real, and that was one of those early moments where I could see these decisions and what a huge impact they had and how dismissive it is of the policymakers who just think that there's someone in that household that can chauffeur their kids around as if that's no big deal. Maybe it's no big deal for those lawmakers but it's a huge deal and a barrier to upper mobility and opportunity for so many people.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> <a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>, Director of Transportation for America. Thanks for coming on Climate One.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/beth-osborne" hreflang="und">Beth Osborne</a>:</strong><span> Thanks so much for having me back. It was really great to talk.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: This is Climate One. Coming up, why the mayor of Cleveland is focused on the idea of a 15-minute city:</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/justin-bibb" hreflang="en">Justin Bibb</a>: </strong><span>I believe you'll see higher incomes, an increase in property values, a decrease in other climate justice issues like we see in our city. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>: That’s up next, when Climate One continues.</span></p> <p><span>This is Climate One. I’m Ariana Brocious. </span></p> <p><span>Cleveland Mayor <a href="/people/justin-bibb" hreflang="en">Justin Bibb</a> made headlines when he talked about his desire to make Cleveland a 15-minute city in his very first State of the City address.</span></p> <p><span>[Playback]</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/justin-bibb" hreflang="en">Justin Bibb</a></strong><span>: We’re working toward being the first city in North America to implement a 15-minute city planning framework, where people—not developers, but people—are at the center of urban revitalization.</span></p> <p><span>[End Playback]</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span>I asked Mayor Bibb why the walkable, compact city was so important to him personally.  </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/justin-bibb" hreflang="en">Justin Bibb</a>:</strong><span> First and foremost, I would say my own, uh, lived experience growing up, uh, in the city. You know, I grew up in the southeast side in the Mount Pleasant Union, miles neighborhood of Cleveland. And I remember as a kid everything I wanted, uh, was a walk. Or a 10 to 15 minute bike ride from my house. Everything from, uh, my barber shop, uh, to the local grocery store, to church, to Dove Park where I played basketball as a kid. And when I saw our city and the nation undergo the pandemic, I saw again firsthand the inequities in our city when it came to that kind of quality of life as it relates to the wellbeing of our residents. And you know, during the pandemic, you saw many people who lived in really high quality neighborhoods had a park they could go to that was well lit, a program. Maybe had a grocery store they can go to that sold fresh fruits and vegetables. Uh, and so really coming out of the pandemic, giving all the great assets we have in Cleveland as mayor, I really wanted to make it my North Star to say every resident from east side to west side to downtown should have the same high quality amenities all within a 15 minute walk. Or a 15 minute drive, or a 15 minute bike ride, uh, within their home. And that's been our goal since I took office last year. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> So tell us about your plan to actually implement this goal and, and how you plan to go about it. </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/justin-bibb" hreflang="en">Justin Bibb</a>:</strong><span> Well, we've hit the ground running, uh, during a couple things. Number one, last year to the support of city council. We passed our complete Green Streets ordinance, uh, to really allow us to make sure that every development in our city on a go forward basis, prioritizes green infrastructure Everything from more bike lanes to, uh, having a more robust tree canopy to making sure that we're prioritizing, uh, people over cars in terms of walkability and how we plan and design critical infrastructure projects. Secondly, We've made it a mandate now, uh, for key high transit corridor zones in our city to have on demand, TOD transit oriented development policies. So really incentivizing our developers to say, instead of having parking minimums, let's eliminate those and prioritizes more bike lanes, more bikes, bus passes for residents, all those things. And then we're also changing our zoning code. We are a historic legacy American city. And we really want to use our zoning code policy to greater incentivize us being a 15 minute city long term.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> So help us understand the implications for equity and social justice with these changes that you're hoping to implement? </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/justin-bibb" hreflang="en">Justin Bibb</a>: </strong><span>Well, it's so important. Right now, nearly half of the city's entire population, lives within a five minute walk of high frequency transit. And, you know, over 70% of the cities, non-white Latinx population live within a five minute walk. But the key challenge right now, for example, one part of our city in the Lee-Harvard neighborhood, you know, we did a 15 minute city index analysis really analyzing every part of our city and what we found that in the Lee Harvard neighborhood, while it is our highest part of the city, that's considered a 15 minute city, the quality of those amenities aren't where they need to be. And so we want to make sure we're prioritizing the same high quality amenities that we see in more wealthier parts of our city that we currently don't see in working class underserved communities of color. And if you do that, I believe you'll see higher incomes. An increase in property values, a decrease in other climate justice issues like we see in our city. You know, Cleveland has one of the highest rates of asthma in the country. Some of the worst air quality in the country. And we have to be more aggressive in our zoning and planning and development policies to really change that paradigm long term.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Yeah. So, this all sounds great. What are some of the hurdles that you see? </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/justin-bibb" hreflang="en">Justin Bibb</a>:</strong><span> Well, number one, you know, there's been this attack from, uh, right wing conspiracy theorists that think us democrat mayors who are prioritizing creating 15 minute walkable cities are trying to undermine people's freedom. This is the antithesis of that. You know, I believe a 15 minute city policy agenda is all about freedom, right? The freedom to have a great job. That's in your neighborhood that you can catch a bus to walk to or bike to, that's gonna pay you a living, sustaining, high wage, long term, their freedom to have a park in your community that's well programmed, well lit, that you have dignity. That you can have a family barbecue in. To me, that that's community freedom. Uh, the freedom to have a grocery store, uh, that sells fresh fruits and vegetables. To me, this is all about creating economic opportunity, which creates more freedom in my opinion, and what this framework really does in, in my opinion, it gives us a really clear, very simple framework of how we make decisions putting people in our neighborhoods first, and to me, equity is all about how we are creating good public policies rooted in the lived experiences of our residents, and, and if we do that with this framework, then there's nothing stopping our potential as a city, in my opinion.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> <a href="/people/justin-bibb" hreflang="en">Justin Bibb</a> is Mayor of Cleveland. Thank you so much for joining us on Climate One. </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/justin-bibb" hreflang="en">Justin Bibb</a>: </strong><span>Thanks for having me. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: Eighty percent of Americans live in cities. That gives them a lot of power to enact policy on their own, independent of the state or Federal government. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span>And all over the world, urban areas are becoming more populated, creating record unaffordable housing. That often has the effect of pushing people further away from city centers, rather than increasing density. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: And that means more travel, more cars, and more emissions. So what power do city governments have to change that?</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span> <a href="/people/david-miller" hreflang="en">David Miller</a> is Former Mayor of Toronto and a managing director with C40,</span><strong> </strong><span>a global network of nearly 100 cities taking action to confront the climate crisis. I asked him what cities around the world can and are doing to tackle these challenges of density, emissions and housing affordability. We began the conversation with one poster child for urban sprawl: Houston, Texas.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/david-miller" hreflang="en">David Miller</a>:</strong><span> cities in the United States. The cities that are car oriented like Houston. In order to become less car oriented you need excellent public transport and an ability for people to walk and cycle. But to have excellent public transport you need density. You need to encourage intensification which doesn’t necessarily mean 50-story buildings might mean 12-story buildings. If you think of Paris and London they're very, very dense but they’re built around buildings that are 6, 8, 10 stories high in some cases. So you need much more density because then public transit works and you can get higher-order rapid transit. It’s very difficult to afford to run good rapid transit to subdivisions built in the sprawl way they almost mandate the car. And the nice thing is those neighbors are great places to live and people want to live in them. So there is a way to do that in Houston. And from the perspective of equity if you have great public transport in relatively dense neighborhoods. Then the city is more of a place where people from all walks of life can afford to be part of the life of the city. Owning a car is expensive. Very expensive to run the figures are in the, you know, well over $10,000 a year just to run a car. So if you’re a low income family a city that's built around excellent public transport allows you to participate in the life of the city just as much as somebody who has much more income compared to New York. New York you get on the subway and people go to Wall Street. But there are also people who are very low income on the subway.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Right. People going to clean houses too.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/david-miller" hreflang="en">David Miller</a>:</strong><span> Yes, exactly. And it’s a great equalizer from that perspective. So from a mayor's perspective, your job really is to build a city where everybody can succeed. And by doing the right thing for climate which is encouraging public transport, encouraging these kinds of neighborhoods that are denser so they can have great services good public transport where you don't have to have a car, you are actually building a city that's not only good for the environment has lower greenhouse gas emissions both on absolute sense and in a per-person sense. You're also building a city that is much more likely to be a place where people from all walks of life have a real chance.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> So there are some cities, New York is a great example as some cities obviously in Europe that have good public transit it’s really well used. The pandemic did have an impact but I think they’re starting to see ridership come back. But in the US, those are kind of outlier cities. And even in places that are trying to get more public transit, though it is popular once it exists, there can be a lot of opposition to getting these projects off the ground. What recommendations would you have for city planners for local governments that want to do this. What are the strategies to make them most appealing and most successful?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/david-miller" hreflang="en">David Miller</a>:</strong><span> Well, I think you look to a city like Los Angeles. We have kind of an image of Los Angeles which is a bit out of date, but it's one that everybody drives and it's full of smoke. But a number of years ago, Mayor Garcetti wanted to build public transit and he took a proposition to the people and ran a campaign about why new public transport would benefit people. And people voted overwhelmingly for a tax increase dedicated to building new rapid transit, some of which is now built and open. And I think his approach of engaging people directly on the issue being clear about the benefits and then using the money pretty quickly to get something built so people can actually see it's real. I think people get cynical sometimes because they hear promises and discussion and, you know, this subway, this LRT, this fast train and nothing ever happens. So it’s really important, A, to make your case to the people. And there's a pretty powerful case to be made because that case is also about jobs, you know, as you densify city or you’re creating all sorts of jobs and therefore about people's prosperity. Make that case to the people and then make sure your first project gets done in open ideally on-time, on budget of course. But the key is to show people it works and then they’ll demand more of it. because once they start to see it and take it, they realize how great it is.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span>Which cities around the world are leading in climate action and what are they doing right?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/david-miller" hreflang="en">David Miller</a>:</strong><span> Well there’s a variety. So Shenzhen, China, superb on electric vehicles. And they were well ahead of the curve. One of the things they have done right, is they're using it as kind of an industrial strategy. They’re creating jobs and economic opportunity for thousands of people by being the center really of manufacturing of electric buses. London, England, you know, it looks at its issues and one of the issues London has is terrible air quality which really impacts children in particular in low income neighborhoods and very high rates of childhood asthma. So, under the leadership of Mayor Sadiq Khan, London has had a really significant program of trying to address the sources of those emissions which are mostly from vehicles. And so they've been put in place an ultralow emission zone which basically if you drive a vehicle that pollutes a lot you pay a big fee to drive in London. And if you have one that's clean, you don't. And they’ve used a lot of the money to make the public transit system better. And they’ve got a great public transit system as it is. But they’ve used the money to buy new buses and electric buses and so forth. So really virtuous circle. New York City has been a leader particularly under Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Mayor Bill de Blasio. They both address buildings Local Law 97 which Mayor de Blasio brought in is requiring commercial buildings to half their emissions by 2030 existing buildings, really powerful. He also led the divestment movement in New York and London, England were really the first big institutions to divest their pension funds from fossil fuels, and its empowered others, universities others to actually figure out how to do it in a way that protects trustees’ fiduciary duties. And then finally, I do have to look to Toronto. Our achievement coupled with the provincial government closing a coal-fired power plant, but our achievement in lowering emissions 33% over a 1990 baseline is really powerful evidence that you can do the right thing for climate, build a better place to live and be economically successful, and create jobs.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> One thing we haven’t really discussed is housing. Increased density for housing can solve a lot of climate woes. It can also do a lot to equalize neighborhoods and make them more diverse economically and socioeconomically. But there is a lot of pushback in a lot of major US cities against densifying certain parts of cities. And you can give innumerable examples of where this has happened. How do you see us overcoming those challenges where people are, you know, in love with the single-family home idea, even though that can be quite exclusionary and has historically been exclusionary?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/david-miller" hreflang="en">David Miller</a>:</strong><span> Well, I’ve personally never been afraid of density. I’m an immigrant to Canada. My mom and I came when I was just turning nine. And we lived in apartments. And I was the cool kid because we had a pool, an apartment pool. So in the summer everybody wanted to come hang with <a href="/people/david-miller" hreflang="en">David Miller</a>. But so, you know, I tend to be a bit of an outlier on this. But I think the art to it, is to engage people in the bigger conversation about the kind of city you want to live in. And there's a moment now where that can be seized because people are worried about the cost of housing. They're worried about whether their children are gonna be able to afford to live in the same city. And so now is a moment where you can engage people in that conversation. And it doesn't mean that every neighborhood has to have 50-story buildings. But if you follow the philosophy that we tried to do in Toronto which is say we’re gonna bring density where there is higher order rapid transit or there will be. I think there's a way to have that conversation with people. And I think it's very possible to win the hearts of enough people that you win those battles. You won't win everyone. But if you win enough of them you can have cities that not only fit in this idea of neighborhoods that are interesting to live in with lots of amenities because you can afford them built around rapid transit. And you can also if you're smart in the way you oversee the development really address the affordability issues. And that something people really want. The big successful cities like New York, Chicago like Seattle, Toronto like London like Paris. I think like Buenos Aires like the Chinese cities like São Paulo. To live in the core is becoming unaffordable for most. And if you can demonstrate to people that if they come along with you, you'll be able far more people including their families can live in the core of the city and take advantage of all the wonderful amenities, you can bring them with you. There’s an art to it, it’s hard there are battles there’s no question. But I’ve seen them won, including in my city.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span><a href="/people/david-miller" hreflang="en">David Miller</a> is former mayor of Toronto and Managing Director of C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. David, thank you so much for joining us on Climate One.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/david-miller" hreflang="en">David Miller</a>:</strong><span>  Thanks very much for having me. You got a wonderful podcast and please keep up the great work. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Thanks.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: On this Climate One... We’ve been talking about the 15-minute city. This episode was supported by ClimateWorks.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span>We’d love to hear what you think about this concept and how it could apply to where you live – leave us a comment on LinkedIn or send us an email: greg at climate one dot org. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>:  Climate One’s empowering conversations connect all aspects of the climate emergency. To hear more, subscribe wherever you get your pods. Talking about climate can be hard-- AND it’s critical to address the transitions we need to make in all parts of society. Please help us get people talking more about climate by giving us a rating or review. You can do it right now on your device. You can also help by sending a link to this episode to a friend. </span></p> <p><span>Brad Marshland is our senior producer; Our managing director is Jenny Park. Ariana Brocious is co-host, editor and producer. Austin Colón is producer and editor. Megan Biscieglia is our production manager. Wency Shaida is our development manager, Ben Testani is our communications manager. Our theme music was composed by George Young (and arranged by Matt Willcox). Gloria Duffy is CEO of The Commonwealth Club of California, the nonprofit and nonpartisan forum where our program originates. I’m Greg Dalton.</span></p> </div> <div class="field__item"><p><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-timestamp="2:58" data-image="" hreflang="en">2:58</a> Henry Grabar on how parking became what we see today<br /><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-timestamp="5:37" data-image="" hreflang="en">5:37</a> Henry Grabar on the size and price of the average parking spot<br /><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-timestamp="8:52" data-image="" hreflang="en">8:52</a> Henry Grabar on how cities treat curbside parking<br /><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-timestamp="18:15" data-image="" hreflang="en">18:15</a> Henry Grabar on reclaiming parking lots <br /><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-timestamp="21:23" data-image="" hreflang="en">21:23</a> Beth Osborne on the Divided by Design report <br /><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-timestamp="25:49" data-image="" hreflang="en">25:49</a> Beth Osborne on the lack of rural transit systems<br /><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-timestamp="38:27" data-image="" hreflang="en">38:27</a> Beth Osborne on how electric vehicles influence the need for compact cities <br /><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-timestamp="43:01" data-image="" hreflang="en">43:01</a> Justin Bibb on why the 15-minute city is personally important to him<br /><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-timestamp="46:06" data-image="" hreflang="en">46:06</a> Justin Bibb on the implications of the 15-minute city on justice and equity<br /><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-timestamp="50:02" data-image="" hreflang="en">50:02</a> David Miller on how to address sprawl in places like Houston <br /><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-timestamp="58:02" data-image="" hreflang="en">58:02</a> David Miller on how leaders need to communicate with their constituents</p> </div> <div class="field-related-podcasts field--label-hidden field__items"> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="25681"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/what-infrastructure-deal-means-climate" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC3291728226.mp3" data-node="25681" data-title="What the Infrastructure Deal Means for Climate" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod Webpage-Unpacking Infrastructure.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20Webpage-Unpacking%20Infrastructure.jpg?itok=QDV9-MCB 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod%20Webpage-Unpacking%20Infrastructure.jpg?itok=r1I-JQjM 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1600" height="1600" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20Webpage-Unpacking%20Infrastructure.jpg?itok=QDV9-MCB" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/what-infrastructure-deal-means-climate">What the Infrastructure Deal Means for Climate</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">December 3, 2021</div> </span> After months of negotiations, Congress finally passed President Biden’s infrastructure act and he signed it into law. 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And these days that’s where important climate progress is happening. Cities all over the… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"> <div class="field__item"><a href="/category/searching-solutions" hreflang="en">Searching for Solutions</a></div> </div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="25814" data-title="Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC5913416983.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies.mp3" href="/api/audio/25814"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path 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fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="25258"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/covid-19-and-climate-future-energy" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20200522_cl1_Future_of_Energy_PODCAST.mp3" data-node="25258" data-title=" COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod-COVID Energy.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg?itok=eBhMkjmL 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg?itok=NPqpoXLG 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="2500" height="2500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg?itok=eBhMkjmL" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/covid-19-and-climate-future-energy"> COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">May 22, 2020</div> </span> If you lived through the oil crisis of the 1970’s, you remember lines of cars at the gas stations, waiting to fill up on “alternate days.” Now, after… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="25258" data-title=" COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20200522_cl1_Future_of_Energy_PODCAST.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download=" COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy.mp3" href="/api/audio/25258"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/25258"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24907"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/cities-future-where-life-meets-design" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20190712_cl1_Cities_for_the_Future_PODCAST.mp3" data-node="24907" data-title="Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design" data-image="/files/images/media/PRX Life Meets Design.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=5yJolTin 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=PW1reF4A 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1600" height="1600" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=5yJolTin" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/cities-future-where-life-meets-design">Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">July 12, 2019</div> </span> When Ridley Scott envisioned the dystopian Los Angeles of 2019 in “Blade Runner,” he probably didn’t think about how much energy would be needed to… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24907" data-title="Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20190712_cl1_Cities_for_the_Future_PODCAST.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design.mp3" href="/api/audio/24907"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/24907"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24454"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/new-wheels-town" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20180715_cl1_NewWheelsInTown.mp3" data-node="24454" data-title="New Wheels in Town" data-image="/files/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg?itok=dB6l5VXj 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg?itok=AzzdOozk 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1000" height="1215" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg?itok=dB6l5VXj" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/new-wheels-town">New Wheels in Town</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">June 20, 2018</div> </span> Electric scooters, skateboards and bicycles are popping up all over in cities all over the country. Ride-hailing companies are also moving to two… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24454" data-title="New Wheels in Town" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20180715_cl1_NewWheelsInTown.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="New Wheels in Town.mp3" href="/api/audio/24454"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/24454"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24283"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/weathering-storm-mayors-houston-miami-and-columbia" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20180218_cl1_Weathering_the_Storm_PODCAST.mp3" data-node="24283" data-title="Weathering the Storm: Mayors of Houston, Miami and Columbia" data-image="/files/images/media/20180207_RITGER_Weathering the Storm_179.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/20180207_RITGER_Weathering%20the%20Storm_179.jpg?itok=i45mDH2j 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/20180207_RITGER_Weathering%20the%20Storm_179.jpg?itok=uC9Q4okP 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="750" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/20180207_RITGER_Weathering%20the%20Storm_179.jpg?itok=i45mDH2j" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/weathering-storm-mayors-houston-miami-and-columbia">Weathering the Storm: Mayors of Houston, Miami and Columbia</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">February 8, 2018</div> </span> 2017 brought a raft of extreme weather disasters costing the U.S. hundreds of billions of dollars in damages, including hurricanes Harvey, Irma and… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24283" data-title="Weathering the Storm: Mayors of Houston, Miami and Columbia" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20180218_cl1_Weathering_the_Storm_PODCAST.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/20180207_RITGER_Weathering%20the%20Storm_179.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Weathering the Storm: Mayors of Houston, Miami and Columbia.mp3" href="/api/audio/24283"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/24283"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24007"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/how-cities-can-solve-climate-challenge" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20170604_cl1_How_Cities_Can_Solve.mp3" data-node="24007" data-title="How Cities can Solve the Climate Challenge" data-image="">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/event/2017.05.04%20How%20Cities%20Can%20Solve%20Climate%20Upcoming%20Events%20Size.jpg?itok=QPIEs6-F 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/event/2017.05.04%20How%20Cities%20Can%20Solve%20Climate%20Upcoming%20Events%20Size.jpg?itok=64zoHOPe 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1000" height="563" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/event/2017.05.04%20How%20Cities%20Can%20Solve%20Climate%20Upcoming%20Events%20Size.jpg?itok=QPIEs6-F" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/how-cities-can-solve-climate-challenge">How Cities can Solve the Climate Challenge</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">May 5, 2017</div> </span> Cities around the country are reshaping their economies for a greener future. Mayors and chambers of commerce are promoting smart growth and moving… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24007" data-title="How Cities can Solve the Climate Challenge" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20170604_cl1_How_Cities_Can_Solve.mp3" data-image="/files/images/event/2017.05.04%20How%20Cities%20Can%20Solve%20Climate%20Upcoming%20Events%20Size.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="How Cities can Solve the Climate Challenge.mp3" href="/api/audio/24007"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/24007"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> </div> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=N4bwtMoT 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=fzc4plXe 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=N4bwtMoT" alt="Bikers navigate a city street next to a bus" alt="Bikers navigate a city street next to a bus" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-image="/files/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg">Play</a> Thu, 10 Aug 2023 21:12:25 +0000 BenTestani 100128 at https://www.climateone.org Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls https://www.climateone.org/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls <span class="field field--name-uid field--type-entity-reference field--label-hidden"><span>BenTestani</span></span> <span class="field field--name-created field--type-created field--label-hidden">Thu, 06/08/2023 - 3:29 pm</span> <div class="field__item">&nbsp;</div> <div class="field__item"><p><span id="docs-internal-guid-c280ddc2-7fff-4335-9571-f287fd1cef8e">Extreme heat kills more people per year than any other climate disaster. It preys on the poor, exacerbates racial inequalities, and there is a growing body of evidence that shows women and girls are increasingly susceptible to heat-health effects. Globally, women and girls represent 80% of climate refugees. They are more likely to be displaced, suffer violence and die in natural disasters. As temperatures rise, children’s test scores decrease, gender violence increases, and miscarriage rates go up. But preventing heat deaths is possible. From Europe to Africa, Chief Heat Officers throughout the world are implementing projects to make cities more climate-adaptive. </span></p> </div> <div class="cards cards_sideswipe small_square"> <div class="container title"> <h2>Guests</h2> </div> <div class="container sideswipe"><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="100095"> <figure> <a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-06/Eugenia.png?itok=kvE-uRj3 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-06/Eugenia.png?itok=WJpVm_6y 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="500" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-06/Eugenia.png?itok=kvE-uRj3" alt="Eugenia Kargbo" alt="Eugenia Kargbo" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo">Eugenia Kargbo</a></h1> <div class="title">Chief Heat Officer, Freetown, Sierra Leone</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="25560"> <figure> <a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Kathy%20BM-4x3-1_0.jpg?itok=BtGFZslL 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/person/Kathy%20BM-4x3-1_0.jpg?itok=ONxyX-s7 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1097" height="1097" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Kathy%20BM-4x3-1_0.jpg?itok=BtGFZslL" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a></h1> <div class="title">Director, Adrienne Arsht-Rockefeller Foundation Resilience Center; Senior VP, Atlantic Council </div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="100094"> <figure> <a href="/people/eleni-myrivili"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-06/Eleni.png?itok=rPhRDYew 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-06/Eleni.png?itok=1Kgu4k_y 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="500" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-06/Eleni.png?itok=rPhRDYew" alt="Eleni Myrivili" alt="Eleni Myrivili" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/eleni-myrivili">Eleni Myrivili</a></h1> <div class="title">Global Chief Heat Officer, UN Habitat</div> </article> </div><div class="col empty"></div> </div> </div><h1 class="node__title">Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls </h1> <div class="field__item"><time datetime="2023-06-09T12:00:00Z" class="datetime">06/09/2023</time> </div> <div class="field-resources field--label-hidden field__items"> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-633" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://onebillionresilient.org/extreme-heat-inflames-gender-inequalities/?utm_source=Marketo&amp;utm_medium=AR%20newsletter&amp;utm_campaign=the_scorching%20_divide&amp;utm_id=TSD1" target="_blank">REPORT: The Scorching Divide: How Extreme Heat Inflames Gender Inequalities in Health and Income (onebillionresilient.org)</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-576" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/programs/adrienne-arsht-rockefeller-foundation-resilience-center/" target="_blank">Adrienne Arsht – Rockefeller Foundation Resilience Center (atlanticcouncil.org)</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="field__item"> <div id="¶-577" class="paragraph paragraph--type--link paragraph--view-mode--default"> <div class="field__item"><a href="https://onebillionresilient.org/project/extreme-heat/" target="_blank">Building Extreme Heat Resilience (onebillionresilient.org)</a></div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="share-this"> <div><a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A//www.climateone.org/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls&amp;text=Killer%20Heat%3A%20Confronting%20Disproportionate%20Impacts%20on%20Women%20and%20Girls%20" target="_blank"><svg version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" x="0px" y="0px" viewBox="0 0 248 204"><path fill="#ffffff" class="st0" d="M221.95,51.29c0.15,2.17,0.15,4.34,0.15,6.53c0,66.73-50.8,143.69-143.69,143.69v-0.04 C50.97,201.51,24.1,193.65,1,178.83c3.99,0.48,8,0.72,12.02,0.73c22.74,0.02,44.83-7.61,62.72-21.66 c-21.61-0.41-40.56-14.5-47.18-35.07c7.57,1.46,15.37,1.16,22.8-0.87C27.8,117.2,10.85,96.5,10.85,72.46c0-0.22,0-0.43,0-0.64 c7.02,3.91,14.88,6.08,22.92,6.32C11.58,63.31,4.74,33.79,18.14,10.71c25.64,31.55,63.47,50.73,104.08,52.76 c-4.07-17.54,1.49-35.92,14.61-48.25c20.34-19.12,52.33-18.14,71.45,2.19c11.31-2.23,22.15-6.38,32.07-12.26 c-3.77,11.69-11.66,21.62-22.2,27.93c10.01-1.18,19.79-3.86,29-7.95C240.37,35.29,231.83,44.14,221.95,51.29z"/></svg></a></div> <div><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=1&amp;url=https%3A//www.climateone.org/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls&amp;title=Killer%20Heat%3A%20Confronting%20Disproportionate%20Impacts%20on%20Women%20and%20Girls%20" target="_blank"><svg height="72" viewBox="0 0 72 72" width="72" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><defs><mask id="letters" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"><rect fill="#fff" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"></rect><path fill="#000" style="fill: #000 !important" d="M62,62 L51.315625,62 L51.315625,43.8021149 C51.315625,38.8127542 49.4197917,36.0245323 45.4707031,36.0245323 C41.1746094,36.0245323 38.9300781,38.9261103 38.9300781,43.8021149 L38.9300781,62 L28.6333333,62 L28.6333333,27.3333333 L38.9300781,27.3333333 L38.9300781,32.0029283 C38.9300781,32.0029283 42.0260417,26.2742151 49.3825521,26.2742151 C56.7356771,26.2742151 62,30.7644705 62,40.051212 L62,62 Z M16.349349,22.7940133 C12.8420573,22.7940133 10,19.9296567 10,16.3970067 C10,12.8643566 12.8420573,10 16.349349,10 C19.8566406,10 22.6970052,12.8643566 22.6970052,16.3970067 C22.6970052,19.9296567 19.8566406,22.7940133 16.349349,22.7940133 Z M11.0325521,62 L21.769401,62 L21.769401,27.3333333 L11.0325521,27.3333333 L11.0325521,62 Z"/></mask></defs><path id="blue" style="mask-image: url(#letters); 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Please check the actual audio before quoting it.</em></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: This is Climate One, I’m Greg Dalton.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span>And I’m Ariana Brocious.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: Extreme heat kills more people per year than any other climate disaster. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span>And it’s a hidden threat–practically invisible compared to the torrential rain of a hurricane or drama of climate-fueled wildfires. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>:  Soaring heat caused by burning fossil fuels preys on the poor and exacerbates racial inequalities – revealing vulnerabilities in its wake.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span> And there’s a growing body of evidence that shows women and girls are disproportionately susceptible to heat-health effects. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: Globally, women and girls represent 80% of climate refugees. They’re more likely to be displaced, suffer violence and die from natural disasters. </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>: </strong><span>Women get the short end of the stick, in every way. And extreme heat is exacerbating and adding fuel to this profound inequality.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> That’s <a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>, director of the Adrienne Arsht-Rockefeller Foundation Resilience Center. As temperatures rise, gender violence increases and miscarriage rates go up. But Kathy says preventing heat deaths is possible.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>: </strong><span>This is one of the most beautiful things about addressing this climate risk: you can solve this; people don’t have to die from heat.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: The Arsht-Rockefeller Center has been funding Chief Heat Officers throughout the world – people implementing projects to make cities more climate-adaptive. People like <a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a> of Athens:</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a>: </strong><span>We have to start designing cities and transportation and kind of hospitals in special ways. And make sure that we have the right type of infrastructure that can support women as well as men in our modern cities.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> After we hear from Kathy, we’ll travel to a few different places dealing with heat, and hear about ways to mitigate it. From reviving an ancient aqueduct in Greece, to building mud-wattle houses in Uganda and putting shade and solar lights over an outdoor market in Sierra Leone. That’s all coming up.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: One note about language before we begin. Extreme temperatures are commonly called heat waves. But the word wave implies we can just wait it out and it will pass. That’s true, AND those waves are becoming bigger and longer. I got a problem with that word “wave.”</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Yeah, and our brains are sort of hard-wired to forget about these kinds of episodic difficulties, which means that we need better systems to talk about heat. And one thing that Kathy and others are really advocating for is to have a naming system for naming heat events similar to what we do for hurricanes and other kinds of natural disasters, because it not only helps us to think about them in the moment, but also refer back to them and compare different events over time.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: I also got a problem with the term “natural disasters” cuz they’re not really natural anymore. But let’s get on with it.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Climate amplified.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: There you go. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association just upped its odds of an El Niño event, which, for the first time, could put us over 1.5°of global warming set by the Paris Accord. I asked Kathy how she reconciles this news with her work. </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> I hate to say it but I knew it already and it's validation of our work. And it's also sad because we know exactly what to do and we know how to do it and we have the capital to do it, and the policies. We don't have the political leadership to do it. And that’s sad. The upside is that on the issue of addressing extreme heat. We do have solutions and things that we can do to protect ourselves. And so, this is a mixed emotions story.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> And extreme heat kills more people per year than any other climate disaster more than floods, fires, hurricanes that grab the headlines. And I kind of knew that but didn't quite realize that deaths from severe heat increased 56% in the US between 2018 and 2021. I wasn't aware of that before studying up for this episode. So, how else does extreme heat affect people?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> Well, it affects the human body in profound ways, and it affects people disproportionately. And that's one of the biggest elements of addressing climate impacts is it is an issue of climate justice that the story of extreme heat is a story of race and a story of discrimination. And when you think about the neighborhoods that or the environments in which people live many of them are leafy and green in wealthy areas. And many of them are covered in black asphalt with very little bits of nature. And that makes a big difference on our health and exposure to extreme heat increases asthma. It means that you have to run the air conditioner more. And if you don't have air conditioning that heat exacerbates underlying conditions that people have. And people in food deserts with little access to health and healthy food and healthcare end up having their conditions like diabetes or heart disease exacerbated by heat. And the scary part is, a lot of times these deaths and illnesses are masked. You know it's called the silent killer for a reason. We don't hear it. We can't see it. And we don't have a lot of data that tells us. And so, our numbers that you just cited that’s the best we can do. Oftentimes we have to model those numbers because we don't have the data to record it.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Right. And we've learned recently from studies that those neighborhoods with lots of asphalt in urban heat islands are those neighborhoods that were redlined by banks and there were not loans given and that there is a direct link between racism and heat in urban america.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> I have a good friend, Adam Freed, who is an adjunct professor at Columbia. And in his class, he talks about the fact that these treeless neighborhoods with lots of asphalt it's racism that you can see from space. And that’s such a dramatic imagery that that brings I find that helpful.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> I talked to a urologist once who said, yeah, he sees an uptick in patients during high heat because people are not hydrating. And think about all the people who don't get to see a urologist or a doctor during an extreme heat event. What else happens, workplace injuries, lost income. I think I remember one-time Sol Hsiang from UC Berkeley saying every day over say 90° is like putting a $20 bill on fire per person because of lost productivity, etc.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> Well, at the macro level we work with Vivid Economics and we calculated the worker productivity losses for the US economy at $100 billion in 2020 as a baseline, so that's growing. And 18% of that loss is disproportionally borne by Black and Hispanic workers in the South. But we also looked at cities across the world and found that in New Delhi, a worker loses a quarter of their income every single day when they work outside. So, they're losing a full quarter has evaporated, and in Dhaka 8% of their GDP of the city is lost to heat. And in Miami-Dade County, completely different setting, you know, their annual budget is $10 billion. The cost of heat to their economy, just that one dimension, you know, that's not business interruption or healthcare or infrastructure just worker productivity is $10 billion. The same amount as their entire annual budget. And all of this is silent and unfortunately a bit of a secret which is why I’m thrilled to be on your podcast today.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> In addition to disproportionate impacts due to race. Extreme heat also has disproportionate impacts on women and girls around the world, often because they're the ones fetching water, working outdoors. Tell us more about that, how heat disproportionally affects women and girls.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> We work really closely with an organization called the Self-Employed Women's Association and they're based in India and they have 2.5 million women in the informal sector in 110 different trades. So, think about waste recyclers or market traders or construction workers. And we have learned very well their impacts which mean they even have blisters on their hands from using tools that are not made for the conditions they’re being used in. They have urinary tract infections, miscarriages, a rash that used to be a few months out of the year is now 12 months out of the year, headaches. It’s profound and most of the time they’re the primary breadwinner for their family. With these extreme temperatures. Work is shifted to different times of the day to try to find cooler times. And so, when there's a break, men can go back to work and women go home to take care of their kids, make dinner, clean up, put them to bed and they can't go out again and work. So, they're missing an entire shift and they're missing all the money that comes with that shift.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> There is also research that shows across the board bad things happen when humans get exceptionally hot. Violence increases on all scales. There’s more domestic violence in the home, there's more people honking in the streets. There are more fights. There's even more interstate conflict. How does all of that affect women in their position of relative power in society?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> Those are all absolutely true, and exacerbating the physiological the cultural. Women get the short end of the stick in every way. Culturally domestic violence, eating last, being responsible for getting water, clothes that cover their bodies fully. Being seen in many cultures as second- or third-class citizens. And extreme heat is exacerbating and adding fuel to this profound inequality. And we want to address that.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> And you mention investing in women and girls. We know that all sorts of good things happen when girls stay in school and women are empowered. What are some solutions, particularly for heat in India or elsewhere that can really to address this disproportionate heat impact?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> One thing we know is that women reinvest 90% of what they make back into their community. So, all boats rise when you invest in women and their economic viability and sustainability. And so, in India with the Self-Employed Women's Association we are testing a micro insurance product that pays to their bank accounts when their health is threatened by extreme heat. And it's called the extreme heat income micro insurance. And we’ve partnered with Self-Employed Women’s Association and Blue Marble, which is a private-sector micro insurance company, and we’ve developed this insurance. And the key thing is, it pays right to their bank accounts. And we've combined it though, you know, when you think about these insurance approaches, their risk sharing or risk transferring you also need to reduce the risk. And so, we've included in the program physical things that can help protect the women. And they choose what these things are including coolers to keep their water and their food and their produce from spoiling. Cement water tanks that keep the water temperature and the quality as it should be. Tarps that cover their crops to keep them from roasting in the sun. Gloves to protect their hands from the blisters that what I described that the ship breakers, the construction workers and the waste recyclers experience. And then thinking about early warnings they don't have access to good early warnings about heatwaves. And so, we're combining early warning system to the WhatsApp groups that they use to communicate with their grassroots leaders. And then lastly, there’s an element of financial inclusion. Thousands of the women are new to having their own bank accounts. They’re not banking through their father or their brother or their uncle. They have their own bank account. And so, there are lots of things happening within this one initiative. And so, we’re putting a lot of stock into it and it’s just been underway for about 10 days.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> And that sounds really important because as part of this trend in insurance called parametric insurance, which is to release money before the bad thing happens rather than after the hurricane hits. And so, on the basis of a forecast of a heat or an extreme weather event to try to get money into people's hands beforehand rather than after something we knew was going to happen, but they couldn't get help until the damage was done.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> Yes, a slight adjustment to that. So, the parametric is something that pays out when an event happens and a forecast based parametric again, I'm sorry about the jargon but something that’s gonna give you money three or four days before the bad things happens is what we want. And I was just in Ahmedabad and we met with several of the grassroots leaders that represent the women in the different trades. And these women themselves were in those trades and some still are. We asked we want to move this to a forecast based product, meaning you get notice and you get paid beforehand. How would that change your decision-making. And that was so informative because we saw wild excitement about changing when they might work thinking about arranging their childcare differently. Thinking about their food differently. Lots of solutions they had, of how they would handle if they got paid in advance of that heat. And much better than waiting for the time that it happens or shortly after. And so, the parametric pays when the heatwave is triggered and the forecast base means we can use a forecast to pay them. And so, where our next round of the pilot will be that which is testing the forecast based of the parametric. And so, we’re trying to get in front of it as much as we can.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Insurance can be a real powerful lever here. One of your initiatives that started a couple years ago has been naming heatwaves the way hurricanes are named. Beyond elevating the issue in the public consciousness, what does that do?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> So, as we know heatwaves are invisible and they’re silent. And they’re called the silent killer. If heatwaves are silent. How can we solve it? How can we prevent people getting sick and dying from heat? And every death from heat is preventable. This is one of the most beautiful things about addressing this climate risk you can solve this; people don't have to die from heat. We need awareness. We need actual guidance. We need understanding of our own health, how to recognize signs of heat illness and stress in other people. And we believe and now have some early evidence that supports this that giving heat events a name gives them the branding and the identity that they need. Other climate hazards are so telegenic they’re dramatic, you know, the palm tree is sideways in the hurricane and a car is floating down a street, you know full of water in a flood, a landslide, tornado. I mean, they’re just grabbing your attention. And heat, you know, any aerial photo from one day to the next doesn't look any different. And it needs PR and people pay attention to human names. And now I’m excited to say that soon we’ll release our manuscript that shows the evidence that naming heatwave Zoe in Seville last summer was very successful in getting people to change their behavior and to think about the heat event differently.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Right. There was an infamous heatwave. And I don’t like to call it a wave because a wave has this idea that it comes and it goes, and this is more inexorable than that. But there was a heatwave in Europe, what 15, 20 years ago that killed tens of thousands of people and I don’t have a name for it, right. I have to describe it as that heatwave in Europe has no name that we can attach to it like we can Katrina or Ike or Sandy.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> And there's an archival purpose to that too. Because you remember what happened during Katrina or you remember what happened during Sandy. And so, you know, we have the heat dome heatwave of the Pacific Northwest from 2021 or the Labor Day heatwave in California. I mean we need to name them. We need to keep them organized. We need to reference what happened. And so, it's quite logical. And we don't name heatwaves alone. We also what we’re doing is pairing it with a health-based heat warning system that projects the impact of a heat event on a specific community. So, taking that data from that community combined with an algorithm that we've built with our chief heat science advisor and a science panel that takes nighttime temperatures which are incredibly predictive of health events. So, when you don't rest at night, when you don't get the sleep that you need for your brain to clean out you wake up and you make mistakes. Whether you're at a computer or you are working with machinery, your hand eye coordination is off, you’re tired you make mistakes. Oftentimes, people, you know, there are lots of deaths associated with this sort of phenomenon. And there's maybe year ago, a study that looked at the worker's comp data from the state of California that came to some very eye-popping conclusions about heat and worker injuries. And so, the labor heat nexus is really strong. And so, we're really leaning into understanding the economics of that because the worker loses money and the company’s losing money. And these are just big opportunity for investing in better outcomes and protecting people.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> Right. And a lot of warehouses are not built or air conditioned for this. Of course, building resiliency heat often means installing more air-conditioning which uses a lot of power. it can destabilize the grid. California's address that by bringing grid scale storage online and perhaps using electric vehicles. But what about this vicious cycle of more heat and more air-conditioning which makes the whole thing worse.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> So, there’s a big movement for low emissions / no emissions mechanical cooling. And it’s not just the air-conditioners, you know, we need there's the cold chain is what it's called for food and medicine. Lots of medicines need to be kept at certain temperatures. We need to preserve and extend the shelf life of fresh fruits and vegetables; all sorts of health and well-being are depending on the cold chain in addition to the thermal comfort of our own bodies. We do have advancements in the machines themselves to make them lower emissions. They do have waste heat also so it’s not just emissions but they have heat. But the other pieces the passive cooling which is what we call things that without needing power things that can cool. And that means nature is one of the biggest ways that we can do it and one of the most cost-effective, trees, can make the difference. You know, there’s this concept of tree equity that American forests has coined and is looking at tree equity scores in cities around the US that thinks about the difference in a neighborhood with no trees and the same city, not very far away can be as much is 15°F cooler because of the trees. So, when you think about passive cooling, you have trees, you have lighter surfaces, you know, when we paint roofs and streets white. They reflect and don't absorb. There are green roofs so you put nature on the roof. And there are ways to design buildings for airflow. There are lots of ways to use water creatively so that you cool the air because it moves over the water. These very shallow little almost looks like a puddle, but it's designed and engineered specifically for cooling a community. So, we're looking at the combination of the passive cooling and the active cooling or mechanical cooling to try to bring down the demand. And then of course we want the power source for that mechanical cooling to be renewable. We need solar and wind to be powering it. And so, yes, we’re gonna need a lot more air-conditioning but we’re gonna try to do it in the very best way we can.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong><span> <a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a> is Director of the Adrienne Arsht Rockefeller Foundation Resilience Center and Senior Vice President at the Atlantic Council. Kathy, thank you for sharing again, the impacts of heat on women.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/kathy-baughman-mcleod" hreflang="und">Kathy Baughman-McLeod</a>:</strong><span> My pleasure. Thank you very much, Greg. And thanks for doing the show. May it be the silent killer no more.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: You’re listening to a Climate One conversation about extreme heat. If you missed a previous episode, or want to hear more of Climate One’s empowering conversations, subscribe to our podcast wherever you get your pods. </span></p> <p><span>Please help us get people talking more about climate by giving us a rating or review. Or send a friend a link to this episode–or even a whole playlist. Check out our new and improved website, climate one dot org, which has new tools for sharing your favorite episodes. </span></p> <p><span>Coming up, how the city of Athens is employing ancient infrastructure to help mitigate extreme heat:</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a>: </strong><span>It really can make a difference between life and death. It’s a very significant lowering of temperatures.</span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: That’s up next, when Climate One continues.</span></p> <p><span> </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>:  This is Climate One. I’m Greg Dalton, and we’re talking about extreme heat’s deadly impacts–particularly on women and girls. <a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a> is the Global Chief Heat Officer for UN Habitat. In the summer of 2021 she was appointed as Chief Heat Officer for Athens, and not a moment too soon. A few days later the city experienced a very significant heat event, with temperatures up to 45 degrees celsius – around 113 degrees fahrenheit. Myrivili says that hot and dry summer also led to intense wildfires around the city.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a>:</strong><span> So, it becomes kind of a vicious circle, right. So, you have extreme heat and then you start having wildfires and the wildfires increase the heat. And not only increase the heat but they also increase the pollution and real difficulty in breathing. So, what I experienced was a kind of a post-apocalyptic scene where the skies were red and gray and brown because of the fires nearby, and where ash was falling everywhere. And where we couldn't breathe, I remember I had to wear my COVID mask to go to sleep because breathing was actually painful. It felt like it was hurting my lungs when I would breathe. So, and the Ministry of Health asked us not to leave the house for a few days because of these really high levels of microparticle pollution that is extremely dangerous for our health. But the main thing was that it was extremely hot. It was extremely hot. And the streets were empty, and people had withdrawn inside. And it lasted for three weeks. And months later we found out that several thousand people had died because of it. And what is interesting also is that the media was talking about the fires very, very little about the heat. And also, the media never, in Greece, never actually mentions the number of deaths. It was actually through politico.eu and a particular research that Politico did independently that measured different levels of mortality in different countries during that summer that we actually found out what the numbers were.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Well, I think you're hitting on some really important things that we've talked about on past episodes of Climate One regarding heat, which is that there is not the same awareness publicly about the dangers of heat as there are for things like hurricanes or tsunamis or, you know, other kind of major natural disasters. And, yeah, there is not as good of accounting for the deaths. I live in the southwestern part of the US and there are excess heat deaths here as well, especially in cities like Phoenix. the data is not very good, even from the morgues, you know, what are the causes of deaths. And we know there are really harmful effects of heat on human bodies, especially when nighttime temperatures stay elevated. There's data for this because, especially big cities that have a lot of concrete and asphalt tend to absorb heat during the day, radiate it back out at night and then they don't cool off the ways to be some more rural or smaller cities do. What kinds of architectural and design solutions have been tried in Athens and other cities in the region to combat some of these effects?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a>:</strong><span> Athens is particularly densely built and densely populated. It's one of the most densely populated parts of Europe. And it has tons of cement and asphalt and not very many green areas or rivers or any kind of natural water exposed in its surfaces. And that kind of city is not a good city for heat. It's a deathtrap. Because it absorbs heat in those types of materials, those mineralized kinds of surfaces which is the asphalt the cement, concrete, glass, steel, all these like really hard surfaces that are not water permeable and do not have any natural aspects about them. They absorb heat and then they radiate heat at night. And as you said that's the danger, that's the most dangerous type of heat. And we also know that nights temperatures are becoming hotter in the Mediterranean as well, more hot than, they are rising faster than the day temperatures some reports show. So, the night heat is really dangerous because the body never actually relaxes and never manages to adjust its core temperatures to lower its core temperatures and to sleep. So you’re less able to cope with the heat of the next day. So, you go to work particularly fatigued, but also your body and your organs, your internal organs have not managed to kind of lower their temperatures. So, that becomes particularly dangerous, So, in cities that are like this we immediately know that the neighborhoods that are the poorest neighborhoods, the most kind of vulnerable socioeconomically neighborhoods, which are the neighborhoods that almost everyone in the world have less green parks have worse quality in their infrastructure and worse quality in their buildings, those neighborhoods are the ones that will first of all kind of take the burden of heat. And those people that live there are the people that we have to make sure to protect.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> You’ve said that we need to move away from the logic of carbon modernity. Can you explain what you mean by that?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a>:</strong><span> The industrial revolution brought together a kind of aesthetics and the kind of logic that created our modern cities with efficiency. And in a way a kind of democratization of resources. So, you know, we had these buildings that suddenly had central heating and we had electricity. But at the same time, it was based at this crazy idea of unlimited resources and most of all, it was based on the idea of unlimited fossil fuels that we can just use and abuse to do whatever we want. This type of cities the type of city that exists almost in a vacuum like we don't think any more of what are the climate conditions that these cities exist in. And we build the same city more or less whether we are in the South or whether we are in the North and just depend on fossil fuels to heat or cool them. And this is crazy because we've actually kicked a bucket full of knowledge from centuries of how people had learned how to what kind of materials to use, and how to build to deal with the local climate conditions in amazingly effective ways. We have to kind of get rid of the type of logic and aesthetics of modernity and start looking to other types of logics and bring other types of aesthetics into play when we design our cities from this point onward.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> The ancient Roman aqueduct that runs through Athens was reactivated. Can you explain what it was originally designed to do and what it's going to do now.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a>:</strong><span> So, this ancient Roman aqueduct that was built in 150 after Christ to bring water to the center of ancient Athens during the Roman times, which at the time had a lot of demands on their bathing and spa. It was a big part of their social life and it continued to be used for many centuries. Water that run underground in this man-made extraordinary engineering feat, which is unbelievable to think about it. They would dig wells and connect the spaces between the wells and they manage for 24 km to keep it in a perfect type of inclination so that the water doesn't go too fast or too slow and continues kind of running for all these kilometers. And it's non-visible, it’s underground. It stopped being used for several decades now since there were centralized water supply for the whole of Athens. And recently we decided that we needed all types of backups for water supplies for Athens. And this was an incredible amount of water that is not being used and today is thrown into the sewage which is good quality and it needs very little further filtering to be used for irrigating green areas and for bringing water aspects to the surface of the city so that in both cases bring temperatures down.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> So, essentially, you're re-activating this pipe system. And that itself has a cooling effect on the city?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a>:</strong><span> Exactly. So, if you use water either to help plants grow or to bring it to the surface through any kind of open water source. Be it, you know, misting or be it water spouts. All of these, especially in combination with green aspects with trees and other types of plants can bring temperatures down up to six or 7°C. It really can make a difference between life and death. It’s a very significant lowering of temperatures. The more you have heat, the more you need water, right. And we know that this is an important aspect for evapotranspiration which is this function that trees have which lower temperature. So, trees don't just help us deal with heat because they provide shade, but because also, they they release little water droplets that evaporate and cool our surrounding areas. So, trees are these amazing natural cooling entities.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> One of the threads we’re untangling in this episode is heat’s disproportionate impact on women and girls. What are you seeing related to this in Greece and elsewhere in Europe?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a>:</strong><span> So, in cities like Athens and in cities in Europe and North America women tend to be more exposed to heat for several reasons. One of them is that we know through different reports that women end up working more than men. And also women end up taking more public transportation than men. And they also have to do more trips than men often because they have to go shopping and they have to pick up the kids and they have to go and take care of the elderly and all that. So, all of these things of caring, especially during times of crises like, you know, if you have a heatwave make women much more exposed to the heatwave and to conditions that can bring them to having physical problems, health problems. So, we also know that women that are pregnant are particularly vulnerable. And not just them but also the babies that they are carrying and the babies when they are first born are very vulnerable as well. So, this whole kind of thing means that we have to start designing cities and transportation and hospitals and particularly places that deal with very young children and women that are pregnant in special ways. And make sure that we have the right type of infrastructure that can support women as well as men in our modern cities. And to turn it back, Arianna, to your question. I just have to remind everyone that women are the ones that take care of every time that we have some vulnerable person in the family or in the extended family. It's the women that will have to stay back that will have to find the ways and the solutions and the resources to support these particular members of the family. And to take it a step further, that is why women are better at finding solutions for adaptation for heat. And we see them actually being in the forefront of solutions,  because they are the ones that have to deal with this much more than to quickly kind of escape it or find other ways of dealing with it. They have to create the conditions that will protect their loved ones and the ones that are the most vulnerable.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> <a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a> is the Global Chief Heat Officer for the UN-Habitat. Thank you so much for joining us on Climate One.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eleni-myrivili" hreflang="en">Eleni Myrivili</a>:</strong><span> Thank you for having me.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious</strong><span>:  Northern Uganda is facing increasingly frequent and severe heat events due to climate change, with temperatures reaching above 100 degrees fahrenheit. The periods of high heat particularly affect those who live in poverty and lack access to cooling technologies. However, there is an affordable, low-tech housing solution that has been used for generations. Contributor Hellen Kabahukya [kah-bah-huuk-yah] brings us this story.</span></p> <p><strong>Hellen Kabahukya:</strong><span> Imagine a place where the sun blazes overhead, and the air feels heavy and suffocating. Where the sun burns your skin and you sweat as early as 10am. This is the reality faced by the people of the northern part of Uganda. Especially during the peak of summer when temperatures reach triple digits. Local residents Anna Ochaya and Achiro Rose say the high temperatures have many impacts.</span></p> <p><strong>Anna Ochaya:</strong><span> The sunshine has been too much, and our things are drying up. Nothing we have planted is progressing because the whole place is drying up. This is making the situation very hard because you can hardly even find food for the children</span></p> <p><strong>Achiro Rose:</strong><span> The weather is hot and there are a lot of diseases. We suspect that it is this hot weather that might be causing us some of these illnesses.</span></p> <p><strong>Hellen Kabahukya:</strong><span> The scorching heat affects women and children significantly. They are responsible for various household tasks and farming activities that expose them to the sun for hours. The region is still recovering from the 20 year civil war. Those returning home have worsened deforestation to make way for development and farming, contributing to the heat waves. But Hellen Ojara of the Acholi culture says the ancestors knew better, and the knowledge passed down generations has been pivotal in safeguarding people against the unforgiving heat through the construction of mud-wattle houses.</span></p> <p><strong>Helen Ojara: </strong><span>The advantage of this house structure is that once built it is very comfortable for living. </span></p> <p><strong>Hellen Kabahukya:</strong><span> Now imagine a huge tree, the shade and the breeze it provides. As we step into one of the traditional mud-wattle houses, we are greeted by the same feeling. Anna Ochaya, a resident of Paicho village in Gulu district explains the benefits of traditional mud-wattle houses over more modern iron-roofed homes.</span></p> <p><strong>Anna Ochaya</strong><span>: It's always cool and fresh, even if it's hot outside, the grass makes the house cool because when you put grasses together, it doesn't heat up. </span></p> <p><strong>Hellen Kabahukya:</strong><span> Most houses have no windows or fans, but the wind gently passes through intentional air gaps in the thatched roof and the wall of the house, bringing a cool breeze inside and providing much-needed relief from the heat. As modern structures begin to shoot up in the town areas, it's not uncommon to see one or two mud wattle houses in the same compound. Even though modern structures built of cement and burnt bricks with corrugated iron roofs are seen as a form of wealth, people still rely on grass thatched houses as spaces to cool off and store produce.</span></p> <p><strong>Anna Ochaya:</strong><span> In our knowledge as occupants of a grass thatched house we feel the temperature in our house is better especially during this current situation of constant sunshine. Unlike a permanent house which would be too hot to even sleep, a grass thatched house is cooler and a fresh breeze at night allows the house to remain constantly cool.</span></p> <p><strong>Hellen Kabahukya:</strong><span> This low-tech solution is affordable even to the poorest of communities. The materials used are readily available in nature and for those in the peri-urban areas, the grass comes as cheap as 1$ per bundle. The unique construction techniques and choice of materials used in these houses have been passed down through generations. Asaba Morris explains the process:</span></p> <p><strong>Asaba Morris: </strong><span>You first dig some soil, you mix it with water into mud. The mud should be thick and not too wet. Then you lay bricks. We use mud for stomping the floor and laying foundation to prevent running water from entering the house and to avoid the floor from being too hard.</span></p> <p><strong>Hellen Kabahukya:</strong><span> There is specific grass and techniques used in the roofing. The pampas grass is laid down while the marram or elephant grass is laid on top. This type of grass can last for over 10 years if maintained well. When the construction is done, cow dung is mixed with ash or soil to make a paste to carpet the walls and floors of the house. Achiro Rose says this provides insulation to the house and keeps dust from rising up in the house which protects them from dust related diseases.</span></p> <p><strong>Achiro Rose:</strong><span> It’s as if it has been cemented. It remains neat and nice.</span></p> <p><strong>Hellen Kabahukya: </strong><span>These houses, with their ingenious design and natural materials, offer a sanctuary from the relentless heat, reminding us of the resilience and wisdom of the local communities in the face of changing climates. For Climate One, I’m Hellen Kabahukya in northern Uganda.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span> This is Climate One. Coming up, why it’s important to center women when building heat resilience:</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo" hreflang="en">Eugenia Kargbo</a>:</strong><span> We are in the market, we are in the schools, we are in the playground. When disaster strikes, women as caregivers suffer the most.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span> That’s up next, when Climate One continues.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious: </strong><span> This is Climate One. I’m Ariana Brocious. Just before the break we heard about the natural cooling effects of traditional mud-wattle houses in Uganda. Now we’ll travel to western Africa to hear my conversation with <a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo" hreflang="en">Eugenia Kargbo</a>, Chief Heat Officer for Freetown, Sierra Leone.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo" hreflang="en">Eugenia Kargbo</a>:</strong><span> So I was born and raised in Freetown. All my life, I have my family here, I have my kids here. And growing up in Freetown, Freetown used to be very, very green with lots of green spaces, trees and flowers and, and plants just full of life and, and nature. And I remember I used to pluck fruit from the back of my compound cause we have lots of fruit trees around us. But in recent years we've seen that beauty goes away. This is mainly due to migration, urban, rural migration, which is as a result of climate impact, but also the uncontrolled development that we've seen. We've seen the city expand and the population more than double. A lot of the areas in the city where we've seen this expansion happening were mapped by the World Bank as disaster-prone areas. So Freetown is located geographically between steep hills, mountains and the sea. So as the city expands, it expands into the forest areas and into the coastal line, which has led to massive deforestation of the forest areas and the position of the coastal areas.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> And we'll talk in a minute about also some of the informal settlements that have resulted, I think from that same migration. But when you think about heat affecting your city, why are women maybe more vulnerable to heat than men?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo" hreflang="en">Eugenia Kargbo</a>:</strong><span> So in Freetown, everyone is exposed to extreme heat, but there are certain population groups and certain neighborhoods that are battling heat than others. So people even in the informal settlements, which are low income earning communities, people who outdoor workers are also badly affected by extreme heat, the elderlies people who are disabled, but more so women. We’re seeing women badly affected by extreme heat. Majority of the people who are now living in these informal communities were once farmers from the rural areas, who are mainly women and we've seen extreme heat and climate change badly affect the agricultural sector. And because of the lack of productivity in crop production, a lot of these women left to find greener pasture and livelihood. And in Freetown, most of where they are now are disaster-prone areas, and the housing condition is also a major challenge as majority of the houses within these informal settlements are built from corrugated iron sheets, which are called, commonly called zinc. Most of the structures do not have any ceiling, so these women also suffer from indoor temperature, directly by the sun’s radiation. A lot of these women also are informal workers and they're outdoor workers and mainly most of what they do is trading, they’re traders. And because of the increase in population and the lack of resources to manage this growth, we've also seen a lot of open air markets emerge, so areas or markets where there are no structures, there are no shade. So these women sell in the street of Freetown every single day exposed to the impact of extreme heat. And we know that prolonged exposure to heat causes several health implications and leads to productivity loss and economic loss.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Are you saying a lot of the informal settlements where people live, they're, they're like zinc walled, but there's no roof structure? And I would imagine that the metal wall also retains heat and probably reflects it or radiates that, so it probably makes those structures even warmer, uh, in some cases. Is that true? </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo" hreflang="en">Eugenia Kargbo</a>:</strong><span> Yeah. So in Freetown, 90% of the houses are built from either zinc or cement. And these are heat trapping materials that absorb the heat throughout the day and during the night, these materials and these structures radiate the heat. So a lot of people are also suffering from this. A lot of them, a lot of people in Freetown are talking about how they couldn't sleep because of the level of heat that they're also experiencing during the night. And we know that it is very important for our bodies to rest. And this just shows you the level of complexity and the level of the issues that this has on the human body when you talk about mental health and when you talk about wellbeing. So inasmuch as people are suffering outdoors, they're also suffering indoors. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> One of your main goals as Chief Heat Officer is supporting the implementation of long-term heat risk reduction in cooling projects, and one of these is the Freetown Market Shade cover project. Can you explain that project and how it's been helping the community? </span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo" hreflang="en">Eugenia Kargbo</a>:</strong><span> So the Market Shade Cover Project is an initiative that is supported by the Arsht-Rock Resilience Center in partnership with the city of Freetown. The project was co-designed and co-created with local residents and Freetown community people, but also the market women themselves based on an assessment that we did to understand the level of impact of heat exposure to women in the marketplace. And so the market shade cover project is our simple project that made use of a material that is called a Danpalon material. The Danpalon material is a micro cell polycarbonate panel, they are very lightweight and they are also reflective and semi translucent. So it allows light and air to flow through. The panels are installed on poles that are holding the sheets together, and these sheets have been in installed in three of Freetown’s major open air markets, providing shade and and protection to these women. We've seen a lot of benefits through the single effort and simple solution. When we talked to the women, they talked about how their goods and their products that they were selling are being badly affected by extreme heat because most of what they sell are fruit and vegetables. And when exposed to the sun, they perish. They also talk about how they've been affected by heat stress and how they couldn't stay in the areas where they're selling. They have to leave their market and, and run for shade because of the heat they're been experiencing. And they also talk about how they suffer during the rainy season from the rain. And so these shade covers do not only protect the women from the heat, it also helps to reduce the economic loss and increase productivity, but also helps to protect them during the rains. In addition to the shades, we also installed solar light underneath the cover to make use of the sun heat during the day and produce light for the women. This also has helped to expand the market hours of the women and create a safety net and serve as a safety net for the women.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> It's amazing to get so many benefits from that structure. So you have shade, reduced temperatures, increased economic benefit from not losing produce. And then the solar lights so you have more security and longer hours. That's really a lot. Can you share a specific story of an individual woman whose life has changed because of these shade covers?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo" hreflang="en">Eugenia Kargbo</a>:</strong><span> So I spoke to the market chair lady. Her name is Yel Amami and Yel Amami was the one that explained to us some of the issues that they faced in terms of the losses and she told me that she finds herself always very far away from the market area seeking shade cover. She feels as if she wants to bathe like 10 times in the day she talked about her head was always pain in her because of the exposure to the sun. And she also talked about how relief they feel right now and the relief that the shade covers are providing not only to her, but for all the market women. And my own personal testimony was when some of the women came to me and told me, we need this to be extended. We need this to be expanded cause there are lots of other women who didn't benefit from the project because the project is a pilot and we're only able to  cover a certain portion of the market. And so they came to me and said, we are forming a committee and we are putting funding together to see how best these covers can be expanded to other areas so that other women can benefit from this.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> What do you hope to change as you begin to scale it?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo" hreflang="en">Eugenia Kargbo</a>:</strong><span> So after we implemented the project, we went back to the communities and to the market women to see what we can do to improve the living condition of women and to help reduce the impact of extreme heat. And whilst we are looking at the outdoor space, we are also looking at the indoor space. So for the outdoor market, we are looking at improving the design of the market to cover much more bigger and larger area. So instead of the rectangular design that we have now, we are looking at the toenail shape design where both vendors and shoppers can be covered and protected from the heat. We're also looking at indoor spaces as you also have a lot of structural markets, but because of the type of materials that we use and the way that the market are designed, women also in those spaces suffer from extreme heat. So we are looking at how do we design a climate smart market, one that we can make use of, or transform the waste from the market into biomass which can be used to power the structure of the market. We are looking at redesigning where we replace some of the windows and the doors with larger windows and doors to increase ventilation flow. We're also looking at the possibility to roll out, a green roof where you can have vegetables being grown at the top of the market and even the waste from the market can be used as a compost. And, as I said, biomass can also power the market and have market storage facility to further protect the goods that the women are selling. 60% of the waste that we produce in Freetown are organic waste. And so they produce a lot of methane. By converting the waste into biomass it helps to reduce the level of methane and the green infrastructure will help to reduce temperature and reduce heat stress for the women in the market, and this can also serve as the blueprint for other African cities in different countries.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> That's really a powerful vision of a market that's so integrated like that recycling itself. Let's talk a minute about disease. How do heat and mosquito borne illness compound each other?</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo" hreflang="en">Eugenia Kargbo</a>:</strong><span> So studies have shown that heat exacerbates several disease burdens. And one of the major health issues we have in Freetown is malaria. A lot of people dying from malaria, especially pregnant women, and studies have shown that when temperatures are extremely high, people get angry and agitated easily, and that's the same for mosquitoes. So they tend to bite more when the temperatures are hot. And they tend to bite more people. So we've seen a lot of issues and increase in vector-borne diseases such as malaria. And this is really affecting the health of women and children.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> Uh, I did not know that about it increasing, like the likelihood of them to bite. That's interesting. Disheartening. So as we wrap up here, I'm curious if you think there's anything in particular about being a woman that makes you a good Chief Heat Officer, given that there are some of these disproportionate effects we've been talking about.</span></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo" hreflang="en">Eugenia Kargbo</a>:</strong><span> Yes. So I think that this is very important and critical to have the voice of women, cause we understand the issues. I usually say that we are everywhere. We are in the market, we are in the schools, we are in the playground. When disaster strikes, women as caregivers suffer the most. They have to take care of the kids, they have to take care of their husband, they have to take care of several other members of the family. So it's important that we also have a voice.</span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious:</strong><span> <a href="/people/eugenia-kargbo" hreflang="en">Eugenia Kargbo</a> is Chief Heat Officer for Freetown. </span></p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong><span>: On this Climate One... We’ve been talking about confronting disproportionate impacts of extreme heat on women and girls.</span></p> <p><span>empowering conversations connect all aspects of the climate emergency. To hear more, subscribe wherever you get your pods. Talking about climate can be hard-- AND it’s critical to address the transitions we need to make in all parts of society. Please help us get people talking more about climate by giving us a rating or review. You can do it right now on your device. You can also help by sending a link to this episode to a friend. On our new website you can create and share playlists focused on topics including food, energy, EVs, activism. By sharing you can help people have their own deeper climate conversations. </span></p> <p><strong>Ariana Brocious </strong><span> Brad Marshland is our senior producer; Our managing director is Jenny Park. Austin Colón is producer and editor. Megan Biscieglia is our production manager. Wency Shaida is our development manager, Ben Testani is our communications manager. Our theme music was composed by George Young (and arranged by Matt Willcox). Gloria Duffy is CEO of The Commonwealth Club of California, the nonprofit and nonpartisan forum where our program originates. I’m Ariana Brocious.</span></p> </div> <div class="field__item"><p id="docs-internal-guid-0de96f1f-7fff-de11-e5cd-8805e934c697"><strong><a href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-timestamp="4:15" data-image="" hreflang="en">4:15</a></strong><span> –  Extreme heat impacts are tied to race and discrimination</span><br /><strong><a href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-timestamp="8:00" data-image="" hreflang="en">8:00</a></strong><span> – How heat disproportionately affects women and girls</span><br /><strong><a href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-timestamp="11:00" data-image="" hreflang="en">11:00</a></strong><span> – Testing out “Extreme Heat Income Micro Insurance”</span><br /><strong><a href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-timestamp="15:20" data-image="" hreflang="en">15:20</a></strong><span> – Why we need to give heat events a name</span><br /><strong><a href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-timestamp="25:00" data-image="" hreflang="en">25:00</a></strong><span> – Athens is a “death trap” during severe heat</span><br /><strong><a href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-timestamp="29:00" data-image="" hreflang="en">29:00</a></strong><span> – Reactivating the ancient Roman aqueduct</span><br /><strong><a href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-timestamp="32:30" data-image="" hreflang="en">32:30</a></strong><span> – How heat impacts women differently</span><br /><strong><a href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-timestamp="35:00" data-image="" hreflang="en">35:00</a></strong><span> – Low-tech climate resilience in mud-wattle homes in Uganda</span><br /><strong><a href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls" class="climate-one-audio jump-link" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-timestamp="47:00" data-image="" hreflang="en">47:00</a></strong><span> – How the Freetown Market Shade cover project is helping women</span></p> </div> <div class="field-related-podcasts field--label-hidden field__items"> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="25561"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/extreme-heat-silent-killer" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC2304519388.mp3" data-node="25561" data-title="Extreme Heat: The Silent Killer" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod webpage-Extreme Heat.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage-Extreme%20Heat.jpg?itok=ZFu-GEKo 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage-Extreme%20Heat.jpg?itok=vKOaDxJf 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="2500" height="2500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage-Extreme%20Heat.jpg?itok=ZFu-GEKo" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/extreme-heat-silent-killer">Extreme Heat: The Silent Killer</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">June 25, 2021</div> </span> Last week’s heat wave across the western United States busted more records – a trend that doesn’t seem to be going away.&nbsp;&nbsp;Despite the… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" 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class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24176"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/chasing-harvest-heat" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20171022_cl1_ChasingHarvest.mp3" data-node="24176" data-title="Chasing the Harvest in the Heat" data-image="/files/images/media/20170919Chasing the Harvest in the Heat-0009.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/20170919Chasing%20the%20Harvest%20in%20the%20Heat-0009.jpg?itok=NnPkqbxI 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/20170919Chasing%20the%20Harvest%20in%20the%20Heat-0009.jpg?itok=JJz1l38W 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1500" height="1000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/20170919Chasing%20the%20Harvest%20in%20the%20Heat-0009.jpg?itok=NnPkqbxI" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/chasing-harvest-heat">Chasing the Harvest in the Heat</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">September 20, 2017</div> </span> Rising temperatures are making hard outdoor jobs even harder. It is the kind of heat that will ground airplanes and melt rail lines, and health… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24176" data-title="Chasing the Harvest in the Heat" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20171022_cl1_ChasingHarvest.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/20170919Chasing%20the%20Harvest%20in%20the%20Heat-0009.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Chasing the Harvest in the Heat.mp3" href="/api/audio/24176"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/24176"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24384"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/hidden-health-hazards-climate-change" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20190113_cl1_Hidden_Health_Hazard_PODCAST.mp3" data-node="24384" data-title="The Hidden Health Hazards of Climate Change" data-image="/files/images/media/Amblyomma_americanum_tick.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Amblyomma_americanum_tick.jpg?itok=s9S-q0E9 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Amblyomma_americanum_tick.jpg?itok=5spl7ytj 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="575" height="546" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Amblyomma_americanum_tick.jpg?itok=s9S-q0E9" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/hidden-health-hazards-climate-change">The Hidden Health Hazards of Climate Change</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">May 10, 2018</div> </span> Climate change isn’t just an environmental problem – it’s also a health hazard. Air pollution and changing weather patterns give rise to heat-related… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24384" data-title="The Hidden Health Hazards of Climate Change" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20190113_cl1_Hidden_Health_Hazard_PODCAST.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/Amblyomma_americanum_tick.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="The Hidden Health Hazards of Climate Change.mp3" href="/api/audio/24384"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/24384"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24283"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/weathering-storm-mayors-houston-miami-and-columbia" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20180218_cl1_Weathering_the_Storm_PODCAST.mp3" data-node="24283" data-title="Weathering the Storm: Mayors of Houston, Miami and Columbia" data-image="/files/images/media/20180207_RITGER_Weathering the Storm_179.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/20180207_RITGER_Weathering%20the%20Storm_179.jpg?itok=i45mDH2j 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/20180207_RITGER_Weathering%20the%20Storm_179.jpg?itok=uC9Q4okP 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="750" height="500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/20180207_RITGER_Weathering%20the%20Storm_179.jpg?itok=i45mDH2j" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/weathering-storm-mayors-houston-miami-and-columbia">Weathering the Storm: Mayors of Houston, Miami and Columbia</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">February 8, 2018</div> </span> 2017 brought a raft of extreme weather disasters costing the U.S. hundreds of billions of dollars in damages, including hurricanes Harvey, Irma and… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24283" data-title="Weathering the Storm: Mayors of Houston, Miami and Columbia" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20180218_cl1_Weathering_the_Storm_PODCAST.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/20180207_RITGER_Weathering%20the%20Storm_179.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Weathering the Storm: Mayors of Houston, Miami and Columbia.mp3" href="/api/audio/24283"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/24283"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="25687"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/2021-year-climate" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6180314940.mp3" data-node="25687" data-title="2021: This Year in Climate" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod webpage-This Year in Climate.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage-This%20Year%20in%20Climate.jpg?itok=I5HN-z8y 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage-This%20Year%20in%20Climate.jpg?itok=S1Xv31Br 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1600" height="1600" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage-This%20Year%20in%20Climate.jpg?itok=I5HN-z8y" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/2021-year-climate">2021: This Year in Climate</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">December 17, 2021</div> </span> From extreme weather events to COP26 in Glasgow to the passage of the bipartisan infrastructure deal, 2021 has been a banner year. In this special… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="25687" data-title="2021: This Year in Climate" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6180314940.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod%20webpage-This%20Year%20in%20Climate.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="2021: This Year in Climate.mp3" href="/api/audio/25687"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/25687"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100148"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-image="/files/images/2023-09/Podpage.png">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=v7PnFYU2 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=uGIVGeOc 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=v7PnFYU2" alt="People stand on a collapsing rock ledge" alt="People stand on a collapsing rock ledge" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health">Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">September 8, 2023</div> </span> Since the industrial revolution, the global north has seen massive economic growth. And today, many believe continued growth to be the engine of a… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-09/Podpage.png"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health.mp3" href="/api/audio/100148"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100148"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100128"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-image="/files/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=N4bwtMoT 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=fzc4plXe 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=N4bwtMoT" alt="Bikers navigate a city street next to a bus" alt="Bikers navigate a city street next to a bus" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city">Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">August 11, 2023</div> </span> Can you imagine if everything you needed in your everyday life was just a walk or bike ride away? That’s the goal of the 15-minute City, a new name… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City.mp3" href="/api/audio/100128"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100128"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100082"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/two-heroes-challenging-powerful" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC2239333477.mp3" data-node="100082" data-title="Two Heroes Challenging the Powerful" data-image="/files/images/2023-05/Podpage_Goldman.jpeg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-05/Podpage_Goldman.jpeg?itok=DekTukxA 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-05/Podpage_Goldman.jpeg?itok=9p9JYNVk 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-05/Podpage_Goldman.jpeg?itok=DekTukxA" alt="Nalleli Cobo and Marjan Minnesma" alt="Nalleli Cobo and Marjan Minnesma" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/two-heroes-challenging-powerful">Two Heroes Challenging the Powerful</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">May 19, 2023</div> </span> Making the necessary changes to address climate disruption will take massive collective action. But sometimes, a single individual can make an… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100082" data-title="Two Heroes Challenging the Powerful" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC2239333477.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-05/Podpage_Goldman.jpeg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Two Heroes Challenging the Powerful.mp3" href="/api/audio/100082"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100082"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100079"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/amy-westervelt-drilling-denial-and-disinformation" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4674345669.mp3" data-node="100079" data-title=" Amy Westervelt on Drilling, Denial and Disinformation" data-image="/files/images/2023-05/PodPage_Westervelt.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-05/PodPage_Westervelt.jpg?itok=OkvOWTOO 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-05/PodPage_Westervelt.jpg?itok=WQofMwwJ 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-05/PodPage_Westervelt.jpg?itok=OkvOWTOO" alt="An offshore oil rig at sunset" alt="An offshore oil rig at sunset" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/amy-westervelt-drilling-denial-and-disinformation"> Amy Westervelt on Drilling, Denial and Disinformation</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">May 12, 2023</div> </span> Investigative journalist Amy Westervelt covers big oil’s methods of shaping public opinion and legal rulings in its favor – which they’ve been doing… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100079" data-title=" Amy Westervelt on Drilling, Denial and Disinformation" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4674345669.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-05/PodPage_Westervelt.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download=" Amy Westervelt on Drilling, Denial and Disinformation.mp3" href="/api/audio/100079"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100079"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> </div> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-06/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=00XvcF5K 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-06/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=tXUwkqYM 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-06/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=00XvcF5K" alt="A young woman in India carries well water on her head while two friends trail behind" alt="A young woman in India carries well water on her head while two friends trail behind" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-image="/files/images/2023-06/Podpage_0.jpg">Play</a> Thu, 08 Jun 2023 22:29:49 +0000 BenTestani 100096 at https://www.climateone.org John Fernández https://www.climateone.org/people/john-fernandez John Fernández<span class="field field--name-uid field--type-entity-reference field--label-hidden"><span>Megan Biscieglia</span></span> <span class="field field--name-created field--type-created field--label-hidden">Thu, 07/21/2022 - 10:02 pm</span> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/JFernandez_Headshot_0.png?itok=fT17Hg6- 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/person/JFernandez_Headshot_0.png?itok=gwkW8Cg3 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1357" height="1331" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/JFernandez_Headshot_0.png?itok=fT17Hg6-" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> <div class="field__item"><p><strong>Professor John E. Fernández</strong> is Director of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Environmental Solutions Initiative, enlisting the capacity of the MIT community in the transition to a net zero carbon, biodiverse and equitable future. He is a professor in the Department of Architecture at MIT, affiliated with the Department of Urban Studies and Planning and a practicing architect. Fernández founded and directs the MIT Urban Metabolism Group and is a member of the World Economic Forum Global Commission on BiodiverCities by 2030, the Urban Climate Change Research Network and the Leadership Team of Oceanvisions. He has published on a wide range of subjects from sustainable cities, urban biodiversity, design and more and is author of two books, numerous articles in scientific and design journals including Science, the Journal of Industrial Ecology, Building and Environment, Energy Policy and others, and author of nine book chapters. He was formerly Chair of Sustainable Urban Systems for the International Society of Industrial Ecology and Director of the MIT Building Technology Program from 2010 to 2015.</p> </div> <h1>John Fernández</h1> <div class="field__item"><p>Professor of Architecture, MIT</p> </div> Fri, 22 Jul 2022 05:02:53 +0000 Megan Biscieglia 25825 at https://www.climateone.org Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies https://www.climateone.org/audio/rebuilding-climate-successful-city-strategies Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies<span class="field field--name-uid field--type-entity-reference field--label-hidden"><span>Otto Pilot</span></span> <span class="field field--name-created field--type-created field--label-hidden">Fri, 06/24/2022 - 12:01 am</span> <div class="field__item"><a href="/category/searching-solutions" hreflang="en">Searching for Solutions</a></div> <div class="field__item"><p dir="ltr">83% of people in the United States live in urban areas. And these days that’s where important climate progress is happening. Cities all over the country and globe are experimenting with climate resilience projects specific to their local environments and challenges. </p> <p dir="ltr">New York City has a plan called NYC 25 x 25 which proposes converting 25% of New York City street space into pedestrian areas, bike lanes, green space and bus lanes by 2025. This is an ambitious plan for a city whose streets are as heavily trafficked as New York City. Tamika Butler is a national expert on the built environment, diversity and inclusion, and change management. Butler, who wrote the title essay in Alison Sant's book <em>From the Ground Up</em>, reminds us that these city projects aren’t just about the ideas: </p> <p dir="ltr">“Streets are one of our biggest resources that we have left for open space. And so, being able to reimagine that space is fantastic, but as I always say it's not necessarily about the idea. I think most people who get into city planning and transportation or environmental work, I think we’re good people, we want to help people. So, it's never the intent of what we’re doing. It's all in the details. It’s how do we make it happen, and who do we talk to? Are we planning with people or are we planning for people?”</p> <p dir="ltr">In upstate New York, the city of Ithaca has a bold plan all its own. In 2021, Ithaca voted to electrify and decarbonize its buildings by 2030. It became the first city in the country to apply such regulation to existing buildings, not just new ones. The city says this program will cut CO2 emissions by 40%. The process will include installing solar panels and replacing gas stovetops and other fossil fuel appliances with electric ones. </p> <p dir="ltr">In order to achieve this aggressive goal, Ithaca has partnered with BlocPower, a climate tech startup based in Brooklyn. Donnel Baird, founder of BlocPower, gives an update on the current state of the project: </p> <p dir="ltr">“We have begun some of the implementation. We have a list of a bunch of buildings that are ready to decarbonize in Ithaca right now…And more broadly we've done a couple city scale engineering assessments. We built a drone-based map of heating loss and thermal load across several thousand buildings in Ithaca… It’s the use of statistics and predictive modeling and thermodynamic building science combined with project finance underwriting that’s gonna allow us to finance a portfolio of buildings across Ithaca. Internally we want to get this done in a few years.”</p> <p dir="ltr">In one black neighborhood in Houston, the city is turning an old landfill into a lifeline. Producer Aubrey Calaway reports, “This past April, Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner announced that the Sunnyside landfill would be converted into the largest urban solar farm in the United States. In total, 52 megawatts of solar panels will be installed over the 240 acre site. That’s enough electricity to power 12,000 homes.”</p> <p dir="ltr">When buildings are abandoned or condemned, they often get demolished and dumped into landfill. But now, the US Forest Service has partnered with the city of Baltimore for the Urban Wood Project. The project consists of  hiring former inmates to salvage wood from vacant buildings and make it into furniture and other products. Morgan Grove, research scientist and team leader for the USDA Forest Service, explains:</p> <p dir="ltr">“More wood goes from urban areas into landfills and is actually harvested from the US national forests. And so, one of the key things is for us to figure out ways to use that wood where it historically would be treated as a waste and to create wealth.”</p> <p dir="ltr">Grove also tells us about the impact the Urban Wood Project had on one of the formerly incarcerated workers that was given a chance to participate, “He was able to get married with his girlfriend. He was able to buy his own house. He was able to put his daughter through college. And, you know, this was really transformative for him.” </p> <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:14pt;"><span id="docs-internal-guid-4fd4dbc5-7fff-eb6a-6a88-7994251489f2"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; background-color: transparent; font-weight: 700; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; white-space: pre-wrap;">Related Links:</span></span><br /><span id="docs-internal-guid-4fe989d8-7fff-5753-185e-fd28ff499339"><a href="https://islandpress.org/books/ground"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(17, 85, 204); background-color: transparent; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; text-decoration-line: underline; text-decoration-skip-ink: none; white-space: pre-wrap;">From the Ground Up</span></a></span><br /><span id="docs-internal-guid-4fe989d8-7fff-5753-185e-fd28ff499339"><a href="http://baltimorewoodproject.org"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(17, 85, 204); background-color: transparent; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; text-decoration-line: underline; text-decoration-skip-ink: none; white-space: pre-wrap;">Baltimore Wood Project</span></a></span><br /><span id="docs-internal-guid-4fe989d8-7fff-5753-185e-fd28ff499339"><a href="https://www.cityofithaca.org/642/Green-New-Deal"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(17, 85, 204); background-color: transparent; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; text-decoration-line: underline; text-decoration-skip-ink: none; white-space: pre-wrap;">https://www.cityofithaca.org/642/Green-New-Deal</span></a></span><br /><span id="docs-internal-guid-4fe989d8-7fff-5753-185e-fd28ff499339"><a href="https://www.blocpower.io"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(17, 85, 204); background-color: transparent; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; text-decoration-line: underline; text-decoration-skip-ink: none; white-space: pre-wrap;">https://www.blocpower.io</span></a></span><br /><span id="docs-internal-guid-4fe989d8-7fff-5753-185e-fd28ff499339"><a href="https://nyc25x25.org"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(17, 85, 204); background-color: transparent; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; text-decoration-line: underline; text-decoration-skip-ink: none; white-space: pre-wrap;">https://nyc25x25.org</span></a></span></p> <div><em>We note with gratitude that Alison Sant is Board President of The Seed Fund, a funder of Climate One.</em></div> </div> <div class="cards cards_sideswipe small_square"> <div class="container title"> <h2>Guests</h2> </div> <div class="container sideswipe"><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="25812"> <figure> <a href="/people/tamika-l-butler"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Tamika%20Butler.JPG?itok=gitBy3pt 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/person/Tamika%20Butler.JPG?itok=8pfJ7bl0 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1500" height="1500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Tamika%20Butler.JPG?itok=gitBy3pt" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/tamika-l-butler">Tamika L Butler</a></h1> <div class="title">Founder + Principal, Tamika L. Butler Consulting, LLC </div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="25506"> <figure> <a href="/people/donnel-baird"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Donnel%20Head%20Shot%202020-08-28.png?itok=ST8bjmab 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/person/Donnel%20Head%20Shot%202020-08-28.png?itok=mEDKN0Yc 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="744" height="744" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Donnel%20Head%20Shot%202020-08-28.png?itok=ST8bjmab" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/donnel-baird">Donnel Baird</a></h1> <div class="title">Founder, BlocPower</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="25813"> <figure> <a href="/people/j-morgan-grove"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Morgan%20Grove.jpg?itok=WXMx0RFn 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/person/Morgan%20Grove.jpg?itok=3GTBwX33 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="534" height="534" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Morgan%20Grove.jpg?itok=WXMx0RFn" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/j-morgan-grove">J. Morgan Grove</a></h1> <div class="title">Research Scientist and Team Leader, US Forest Service </div> </article> </div><div class="col empty"></div> </div> </div><h1 class="node__title">Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies</h1> <div class="field__item"><time datetime="2022-06-24T12:00:00Z" class="datetime">06/24/2022</time> </div> <div class="share-this"> <div><a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A//www.climateone.org/audio/rebuilding-climate-successful-city-strategies&amp;text=Rebuilding%20for%20Climate%3A%20Successful%20City%20Strategies" target="_blank"><svg version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" x="0px" y="0px" viewBox="0 0 248 204"><path fill="#ffffff" class="st0" d="M221.95,51.29c0.15,2.17,0.15,4.34,0.15,6.53c0,66.73-50.8,143.69-143.69,143.69v-0.04 C50.97,201.51,24.1,193.65,1,178.83c3.99,0.48,8,0.72,12.02,0.73c22.74,0.02,44.83-7.61,62.72-21.66 c-21.61-0.41-40.56-14.5-47.18-35.07c7.57,1.46,15.37,1.16,22.8-0.87C27.8,117.2,10.85,96.5,10.85,72.46c0-0.22,0-0.43,0-0.64 c7.02,3.91,14.88,6.08,22.92,6.32C11.58,63.31,4.74,33.79,18.14,10.71c25.64,31.55,63.47,50.73,104.08,52.76 c-4.07-17.54,1.49-35.92,14.61-48.25c20.34-19.12,52.33-18.14,71.45,2.19c11.31-2.23,22.15-6.38,32.07-12.26 c-3.77,11.69-11.66,21.62-22.2,27.93c10.01-1.18,19.79-3.86,29-7.95C240.37,35.29,231.83,44.14,221.95,51.29z"/></svg></a></div> <div><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=1&amp;url=https%3A//www.climateone.org/audio/rebuilding-climate-successful-city-strategies&amp;title=Rebuilding%20for%20Climate%3A%20Successful%20City%20Strategies" target="_blank"><svg height="72" viewBox="0 0 72 72" width="72" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><defs><mask id="letters" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"><rect fill="#fff" x="0" y="0" width="72" height="72"></rect><path fill="#000" style="fill: #000 !important" d="M62,62 L51.315625,62 L51.315625,43.8021149 C51.315625,38.8127542 49.4197917,36.0245323 45.4707031,36.0245323 C41.1746094,36.0245323 38.9300781,38.9261103 38.9300781,43.8021149 L38.9300781,62 L28.6333333,62 L28.6333333,27.3333333 L38.9300781,27.3333333 L38.9300781,32.0029283 C38.9300781,32.0029283 42.0260417,26.2742151 49.3825521,26.2742151 C56.7356771,26.2742151 62,30.7644705 62,40.051212 L62,62 Z M16.349349,22.7940133 C12.8420573,22.7940133 10,19.9296567 10,16.3970067 C10,12.8643566 12.8420573,10 16.349349,10 C19.8566406,10 22.6970052,12.8643566 22.6970052,16.3970067 C22.6970052,19.9296567 19.8566406,22.7940133 16.349349,22.7940133 Z M11.0325521,62 L21.769401,62 L21.769401,27.3333333 L11.0325521,27.3333333 L11.0325521,62 Z"/></mask></defs><path id="blue" style="mask-image: url(#letters); 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I’m Greg Dalton. 83% of people in the United States live in urban areas. And these days that’s where important climate progress is happening. Building codes and regional transit policies may not be sexy. But they can address historic injustices and provide cleaner air and better quality of life in a tangible way. </p> <p dir="ltr">Tamika Butler is a national expert on the built environment, diversity and inclusion, and change management. She is currently pursuing a PhD in Urban Planning at the University of California, Los Angeles. Before moving to Los Angeles, Tamika lived in the San Francisco Bay Area, and grew up in Nebraska. I asked how her experience informs the way she views what cities can and should be.  <br /><br /><strong>Tamika Butler:</strong> You know when I think about my different experiences growing up in Omaha going to law school at Stanford and living in the Bay for about seven years and then moving down to LA where I've been since 2012. It's really different and beyond that I was a military kid. So, you know, from second grade and to right before high school I was in Okinawa, Japan, which is also a totally different environment. And I think it's helped me as an advocate as a consultant as a student. I think it’s helped me as a person. One, just one of my core identities as a Midwesterner and knowing that everything is not a big city. And so, when I look at different solutions to climate to transportation, I am really a huge proponent of there's no one-size-fits-all, right. Like you have to really take a particular place for what it is you have to be willing to see that even without everything being perfect there are probably some strengths there there are probably some things that work.</p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> In 2020 we were simultaneously hit with COVID watershed moments and racial justice and increasing climate disasters. At that time, you wondered if this might be an opportunity to build something new from the ground up. What is that, something new? </p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Tamika Butler:</strong> Unfortunately I think so much that happens in planning and climate spaces is that we get stuck a little bit and this is how we've always done it, right. But we've all heard that saying doing the same thing you've always done and expecting different results, you know, could be a definition of insanity. </p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>And in the essay From the Ground Up, You wondered “What if we build something up just to fortify the foundation of white supremacy that was already there?" How do you avoid doing that?</p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Tamika Butler: </strong>I think we have to be conscious of it. Something else I said in the essay is we have to be willing to talk about it, right. I always tell people if you can't say racism if you can't say white supremacy if you can't say anti-black then I don’t know if I can trust you. Because how can we fix something if we can't talk about it, right? for me if we just say I think what happen in 2020 as we were all stuck inside. And when I say all again, we have to think about who had the privilege to be stuck inside and who never stopped being that frontline worker. But I think as more people were stuck inside and they couldn't turn away from racism they couldn’t turn away from the climate disasters. They couldn't turn away from these things. More people felt engaged and energized to say I want to do something. And there's a gap there between wanting to do something and actually doing it. And sometimes just wanting to do something and articulating that you want to do something but then rolling up your sleeves to again do it the way you've always done it. Well, you might feel like you're building something new because you have a new energy. You have a new interest and goal. And I believe that that is genuine for many people, but because you're not willing to conceptualize it in a different way you think you're building something new when in fact you’re just giving lip service. I think the phrase I use in the essay is you're creating this façade that things are gonna be different, but in fact, you know, we can't just build without acknowledging and speaking about the ills of the past and what was there in the past. Because if we can't speak about it, we can't fix it. </p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> I have learned a lot about my own privilege, white privilege. And certainly, about systemic racism in this country and how it is everywhere and everything since that spring of reckoning in 2020. So, I think I’ve opened up and learn some things. But read your Twitter feed and I think, oh no, I haven't done enough. I haven't changed maybe I'm just making myself feel good. So, how do you, do you see progress and change in the situation you're in in urban planning, you know, are cities being changed in any new way or is just still at that talk level?</p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Tamika Butler: </strong>I think that there is change. I'm an optimistic person. And so, I have to see, you know, I have to believe in some change. If I didn't believe in change then I would feel like all the work I was doing, you know, I’m just a hamster running on a wheel. So, I do think there has been some change. I do think you know there are folks like you, Greg, who are like wow I really looked internal and I’ve started asking myself questions I didn't ask before. I stopped turning away, right. And we are seeing cities do more with reaching out to people doing different forms of engagement being open to changing who we conceptualize when we think of expert. Realizing that you know it's not just the person who works at a consulting firm with the fancy briefcase, but it's also the grandmother who sits in the room looking out the window and can tell you everything you need to know about the speed in the neighborhood what’s the trouble spots are, right. So, I think there have been changes and we are I think headed in the right direction. I think what’s tough is someone who you know does live in this country is someone who's black and queer that we have a tragedy in Buffalo simply because people are trying to live their lives and they happen to be black. It was followed by a tragedy in Orange County where people were targeted for being Taiwanese. And I think that’s something you know we’ve seen a lot of during these last few years the rise and hate. And so, I don't want to let those instances steal my joy or my hope or hide the fact that I think there are a lot of people who have had an experience of feeling like things have to be different, and I have to be a part of that change. But I would also be naïve to not acknowledge that there still a lot of work to do, and it's still really difficult to be black in this country and in the planning space.</p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>Yeah, well in any space, yeah, right. You were for a time, the executive director of the Los Angeles County Bicycle Coalition. Cycling is a sport and activity that is often has a certain image. I’m a cyclist and there is sort of a skinny white male with scrawny arms and big legs and there are inconclusion in bicycling like a lot of things has been a real challenge. Other than the bike path along the Venice and Santa Monica beaches, most people don't think about bikes in LA and happily coexisting. Well, you can't build a bike friendly city from the ground up. What do you do? How do you get bikes into this car centric culture like Los Angeles?</p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Tamika Butler: </strong>Right. You know, and I think this is something we have to think about a lot with a lot of our environmental and transportation interventions. And in an ideal world it would be great if we had a blank slate and we could just build things from the ground up. But the reality is we have the world we have and, in some places, we have the cities and the infrastructure we have. And so, we are looking at more of a retrofitting process. I always say in those spaces there are some new projects so you know when in the city of Oakland, the Oakland Department of Transportation led by Ryan Russo, right. He did a project around potholes. And he was filling potholes, right, he wasn’t building something new. He was focusing on something existing but he prioritizes low income communities of color. It was equity led pothole filling. It was saying what are the communities that haven’t got an investment for a long time. And so again, I think even when we’re building upon existing structures. How do we center equity? How do we think about who's historically gotten the least? Can they get the most? Can they get it first? And so, a lot of these decisions whether it’s a climate investment a transportation investment a housing investment whatever it is it comes to priorities. How do we prioritize who'd we center in this work? And even if we’re building up how can we still do it in a way that's different?</p> <p dir="ltr">We usually just repave this road but can we repave it and include a bike lane, right. Things like that to you know how do we repurpose the space. There's a city here in Los Angeles County Culver City that just did a massive move Culver City project on their main street. They didn't do a ton of construction they didn't have a big budget. It was a quick turnaround. But they made bus only lanes they made bike lanes and they really change the structure. And so, we are seeing these instances where people are building upon existing structures, but again, I sound like a broken record just doing it differently than they've done it before. </p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> I enjoy cycling and I’ve used public bike shares in Vancouver, New York, Washington. I use the one in San Francisco every week. I see stations and neighborhoods across this racially compartmentalized city in black neighborhoods the Chinese neighborhoods the Latinx community. To my eyes, the bikes are recently distributed and inclusive. You see something very different when you look at the bike shares, why?</p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Tamika Butler: </strong>Yeah, you know, one of my friends always says that when we look at bike sharing, we look at some of the membership data or uses data of people who use bikes. It's not always as diverse or reflective of the diversity of the cities that these programs are in. And some people say well that’s because black and brown people don't ride bikes. And this friend of mine says, well, actually we invented bike share, right. We’re the ones who like lived in these communities and said, hey, homey can I borrow your bike for a second, I'll bring it right back. And everybody is using the same bike in the neighborhood. And beyond that, you know, we do ride bike sometimes we’re invisible riders. If you go to any restaurant or any business with the third shift and you go look in the back there are bikes locked up there. And so, it's not a matter of not riding bikes I think part of it is sometimes cities start new initiatives or do new things and there's this kind of build it and they will come philosophy. But if people don't know about it then, especially low-income folks of color who for so long, have been told and messaged that things aren’t for them they’re just gonna make an assumption. So, there's examples in New York when you know bike share worked with affordable housing developers and put some stations outside of low-income housing and people are like I'm not getting in trouble for touching that. Here in LA when we first rolled out bike sharing, we did it in downtown LA. There's a part of downtown LA the garment district with a lot of predominantly Spanish-speaking, you know, hard-working blue-collar folks. And when the bike coalition and the group we are working with People For Mobility Justice went out and did outreach in Spanish. We just kept hearing they just showed up one day. We don't know what they’re for. They must not be for us. No one talked to us about it. And so, I think often times when we make transportation planning decisions and we assume that people like me and you who just love this stuff we’re gonna be like what’s that? Let me look it up. Let me Google it let me see, oh, I can get a membership. But there are a lot of people for whom you know they don't want to touch something that is not for them because they know what happens to them when they do something they shouldn’t do when they go somewhere, they shouldn’t do. And when other people are making those rules for them about what they should and shouldn't do. And so, I think part of it is really, really working with people from the beginning. Not after it's done, but from the beginning and building that goodwill and that buy in.</p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>Never occurred to me. Because one of the places I go to get a bike share is a 10-minute walk from my home in front of a public housing in San Francisco and there’s often bikes there. It never occurred to me that the people living there didn't think they could touch them or use them. Thanks for sharing that. You were trained as a civil rights lawyer before taking the job at the Los Angeles Bike Coalition and you worried that it wouldn't fit your mission because as bike lanes are often the first sign of gentrification. So, what changed your mind and how are bike lanes gentrification?</p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Tamika Butler: </strong>Yeah, again, you know it's not because black and brown people don't ride bikes. I think what that actually means is often the black and brown and low-income communities, you know, they have lacked investment for a long time. And so, all of a sudden, they come outside one day and there's a bike lane. And they're like, wait a minute. We've been riding bikes, right, but this was never an issue. Like we've always been writing bikes but no one ever cared enough about our safety or our, you know, our facilities and infrastructure to build it. So, who is this for, right? We’ve always had transit but it never comes on time. We don't have adequate shade shelters. We don't have streetlights that work. But all of a sudden, some white folks are moving in and things are getting spruced up. And now this, you know, transit line that used to be predominantly of color is now there's more white folks here and they are determining what feel safe and unsafe to them. And those of us who have been using this transit for a long time are now being policed in a different way because someone else has decided that we’re no longer safe. And so, I think it's not the bike lane in and of itself, but it's people saying, why have we been in this community for a long time and some of these investments. Whether it's a grocery store or bike lane fixing the streetlights weren’t there but now they’re there and we’re seeing demographics change. but, you know, transportation and access to transportation is such a critical civil rights issue. It's always been part of the civil rights struggle. Since someone on the bus, said, nah, not today I'm not getting up. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>New York City has a plan called NYC 25 x 25 which proposes converting 25% of New York City street space into pedestrian areas, bike lanes, green space and bus lanes by 2025. How is that proposal strike you?<br /><br /><strong>Tamika Butler:</strong> It makes me really excited. After I left the bike coalition, the next organization I went to was a parks organization, the LA Neighborhood Land Trust where we built parks and gardens in low-income communities. And the reality is we have a lot of open lots and open spaces, in our urban landscape. But beyond that and so many ways streets are one of our biggest resources that we have left for open space. And so, being able to reimagine that space is fantastic, but as I always say it's not necessarily about the idea. I think most people who get into city planning and transportation or environmental work, I think we’re good people, we want to help people. So, it's never the intent of what we’re doing. It's all in the details. It’s how do we make it happen and who do we talk to. Are we planning with people are we planning for people? And I think too often we like to say well, we’re the experts we’ll come up with the perfect plan. But in reality, part of equity is allowing people to self-determine what works best for them. And so, we have to start figuring out ways to plan with people as we work towards these lofty goals. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>Well, thank you so much Tamika Butler for sharing your insights on what's possible and from the ground up. Thanks for coming on Climate One. <br /><br /><strong>Tamika Butler: </strong>Thanks for having me, Greg. I really appreciate it. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>You’re listening to a Climate One conversation about the different ways cities are addressing the climate crisis. Our podcasts typically contain extra content beyond what’s heard on the radio. If you missed a previous episode, or want to hear more of Climate One’s empowering conversations, subscribe to our podcast wherever you get your pods. Coming up, the city of Ithaca in upstate New York is racing to decarbonize its buildings by 2030.<br /><br /><strong><a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a>:</strong> One of the things I really love about the Ithaca project that’s a mayor taking responsibility for their own outcome. It’s not hey, I’m the mayor or the governor and it's 2020 and I’m gonna pass some law that by 2050 we have to achieve XYZ climate objectives. I mean who cares, right? In Ithaca, we have a project that has a timeline 7 and a half years to get everything done.<br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>That’s up next, when Climate One continues.<br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> In 2021, the city of Ithaca, New York voted to electrify and decarbonize its buildings by 2030. it became the first city in the country to apply such regulation to existing buildings, not just new ones. The city says this program will cut CO2 emissions by 40%. The process will include installing solar panels and replacing gas stovetops and other fossil fuel appliances with electric ones. In order to achieve this aggressive goal, Ithaca has partnered with BlocPower, a climate tech startup based in Brooklyn. I asked <a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a>, founder of BlocPower, what has happened since the plan was announced last November.<br /><br /><strong><a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a>: </strong>Well, a lot has happened that's been really exciting. First of all, we’ve got emails from as far away as Australia, Europe with other cities around the world who want to follow Ithaca’s lead. And they want to know how did Ithaca pull this off. How did they defeat the real estate industry in their town? How do they update the code? What were the particulars that Ithaca figured out the engineering finance, project management and really procurement processes, right? I mean there's hundreds of cities around America that similar to Ithaca have said, look, we want to be hundred percent renewable or 80% renewable or 50% by the year 2030. And they passed these laws, but they haven't really figured out how to implement those laws and Ithaca has. And so, there’s lots and lots of cities from around the country and around the world who been reaching out to the mayor's office and sustainability chief in Ithaca, Luis Aguirre-Torres who’s a genius. And he’s been giving them lots of advice. And so, part of what we've been doing is evangelizing the story of how Luis and Mayor Svante Myrick were able to pull this off to decarbonize the entire city. So, that’s one part.<br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>Right. So, they haven't pulled it off yet. It’s one thing to have an announcement and as you know better than I there’s like every building, you know, there's lots of variation in buildings and the kind of equipment and floorplan when they were built. Ithaca has a lot of old buildings. There are two phases I understand. Phase I is a thousand residential and 600 nonresidential units. So, how's it going to happen? There’s lots of different boilers and water heaters and heating systems in these old buildings. They're expensive. Everyone's a little different, which sounds expensive. So, how's it going to happen?<br /><br /><strong><a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a>: </strong> So, we signed our contract to launch the program a few weeks ago. And we have begun some of the implementation. We have a list of a bunch of buildings that are ready to decarbonize in Ithaca right now. There are some community centers there are a bunch of single-family homes with one or two people in the city council, you know, eating their own dog food, But they’re gonna comply with their own law first which I think is appropriate. And more broadly we've done a couple city scale engineering assessments. We built a drone-based map of heating loss and thermal load across several thousand buildings in Ithaca. So, one cold wintry day when it was like way below freezing. We flew a drone across the city to map the rate at which buildings were losing heat and we outfitted the drone with thermal imagery and so we can get a sense of which buildings were particularly energy inefficient based on how they were performing on a super cold day, so we did that. We've also built a map, a digital map or digital twin of all of the buildings in the city of Ithaca so that we can run simulations on what kind of equipment makes sense per building based on the building’s age, size, use case permitting histories. We now have a database and a map of all the buildings in Ithaca that allow us to make predictive engineering recommendations as to what kind of sustainability retrofits will make sense on a building by building basis and not fundamentally as when you get into the implementation of how we’re gonna implement this Ithaca project. It’s the use of statistics and predictive modeling and thermodynamic building science combined with project finance underwriting that’s gonna allow us to finance a portfolio of buildings across Ithaca. Internally we want to get this done in a few years. We know that we have 7 and a half years to do all 6000 buildings. But we like to get it done sooner than that. And Ithaca for people who don't know is about 30,000 people. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>Lots of goals being announced in corporate America and sometimes in government. What happens if Ithaca fails to meet these goals. Will the mayor still be around who's accountable? Because so many times we see climate goals announced by people who won't really be around in office when that deadline comes to pass.<br /><br /><strong><a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a>:</strong> Well, that’s one of the things I really love about the Ithaca project that’s a mayor taking responsibility for their own outcome. It’s not hey, I’m the mayor or the governor and its 2020 and I’m gonna pass some law that by 2050 we have to achieve XYZ climate objectives. I mean who cares, right? In Ithaca, we have a project that has a timeline 7 and a half years to get everything done. We have a three or four-year timeline by contract by which we’re supposed to deliver a set of outcomes certainly the first thousand buildings if not more. And if we don't deliver, the mayor is up for reelection and voters can punish her for not delivering on that goal. And so, I love that Ithaca and the mayors of other several cities around America are taking direct hands-on hundred percent grown-up responsibility for implementing decarbonization in their city. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>When solar panels and electric vehicles first came out basically there is a choice was to buy financing was limited not available. Then over time that matured and now people can reduce the upfront cost of rooftop solar through various financing options. It sounds like you're trying to do something similar to reduce the upfront cost of heat pumps and other equipment for building. So, explain how that's working in this case with multitenant buildings for example.<br /><br /><strong><a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a>: </strong>Yeah, I mean fundamentally, we worked with Goldman Sachs for several years to invent a new financial product that does for heat pumps and building decarbonization technologies. The same thing that mortgage is due for homes or that solar finance is done for solar panels which is amortize and stretch out the cause of these assets over time. Most Americans don’t have hundred thousand dollars lying around to buy a new house all cash or $25,000 laying around to pay for solar panels or heat pumps. And so, you take out a loan you engage with financial markets and use a financial product to help you acquire that asset and repay a lender over time. And so, that's what we've done in this case for heat pumps whether it’s single-family homes, apartment buildings, churches, synagogues, mosques, schools whatever kind of building you have we’ve developed a new financial product that allows us to lower the upfront costs to zero so that all Americans can have access to affordable electric buildings.<br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> in Ithaca your project is going to focus on buildings located in low income and historically marginalized communities. So, how is that gonna work if they are going into low income areas with kind of expensive, kind of single use custom projects. How is that gonna work financially?<br /><br /><strong><a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a>: </strong>We’re gonna finance the low-income buildings the same way we finance middle-class buildings and upper-middle-class buildings. We’re gonna underwrite the energy savings do a pro forma financial analysis of every building and organize projects that are affordable for those low-income building owners. Our business at BlocPower is figuring out how to introduce clean energy to all Americans and making it accessible for all Americans. We spent a lot of time figuring out how to do that and that's exactly what we intend to do. So, we’re excited that 20% of Ithaca’s low income we are going to we’re confident that we’re gonna be able to partner with those low-income building owners in the same way that we partner with more affluent building owners. And so, looking forward to demonstrating all of that.<br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> In March, the Biden administration announced new plans to spend about $3 billion to upgrade thousands of homes in low income areas. That was not one of the more successful parts of the Obama stimulus plan back in 2009. So, how you think that's gonna play out will it be successful and what we learn from last time.<br /><br /><strong><a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a>: </strong>Yeah, I think there’s two things that really changed. One is the Obama administration made a mistake. I know some people who made this decision and God bless them. I don’t know if it was unavoidable, well, some of us are telling them not to do it at the time. Not me, but some of the people that I work with are adamant that they are screwing up which was they took the $6.6 billion of low income weatherization money and distributed it to local nonprofits throughout America who normally run what’s called the weatherization assistance program which is low income green buildings program that President Jimmy Carter started in 1976. And, you know, they took the $6.6 billion and like shoved it through the pipes and distributed it to all these local nonprofits who didn't necessarily have CFOs, weren’t used to having 10 times the budget that they normally had. They were ordered to hire a bunch of workers quickly they haven’t figure out how to train and how to supervise them how to buy more material. And there wasn't necessarily the back-office support to help those nonprofits scale up. So, that was one challenge. The second is, you know, in 2009 most people don’t have iPhones. Most people don’t have mobile computing cloud computing. There is no Alexa. So, there's all kinds of innovation and distributed computing decentralized computing that is gonna make that has transformed multiple industries. If you look at media and what the smartphone has done to media, right, I mean like no one even watches local news anymore we’re all on TikTok and Facebook, right. And we’re using social media because that is what the disruption of the iPhone has done to the news media. Well, iPhone and smartphones are similarly gonna be disruptive to the green buildings industry over 10 almost 15 years have passed. And the computational capacity that the average American has at their fingertips in their home in their speaker. All of that can be applied to building science. And that is what the philanthropic grant from the Bezos Earth Fund allows us to do it is taking cutting-edge computational technologies from Amazon Web Services and Apple have, you know, there's a lidar in the iPhone where you can walk around the building and do a lidar map of your entire building. And so, it just gonna dramatically change the way that we can do analysis and design and installation of green building technologies. And if the Biden-Harris administration is smart, which I think they are, they’re gonna use all of these technologies to ensure that their program builds upon lessons learned from the Obama era. And runs a really successful low-income green buildings program that scale that is successful and can produce case studies to allow lots and lots of other low-income buildings across America and across the world to go green. And that's exactly what we’re all hoping is gonna happen.<br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> You talked about growing up in Brooklyn and heating your home apartment by opening the stove. So, I like to know how personal this is for you how your lived experience informs this. And also, the Brooklyn experience you've done some work in Brooklyn that is not prospective like Ithaca. What have you taken away in terms of the building decarbonization from Brooklyn?<br /><br /><strong><a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a>:</strong> Yeah, I mean it’s been really interesting and we have some time when we're in Switzerland to talk with one of our biggest partners in Brooklyn, Jeff Dunston and to talk with Luis who joined us in Davos. And as we were like plotting and strategizing of how to take the message of Ithaca to the world, part of it is that you can use digital modeling in the digitization of green buildings design into software. That is what we tested out in Brooklyn back in 2016 and 2017 and it worked. And that is what we are expanding to city scale in Ithaca and it's working we expect it to work. And so, we want to continue to build on those lessons of how do you combine insights about the physical world and the physicality of buildings but how do you use software and cloud computing and machine learning to increase the speed and decrease the cost at which you can reach insights about how to green individual buildings and how to green a whole city full of buildings. And so, all of those lessons that we’re deploying in Ithaca and other cities across the country were lessons that we learn early on in Brooklyn back in 2016 and 2017. So, that’s one part of it. I mean I think the other part of it for me is like, I’m a dad I have a six-year-old and a two-month old. And as I read the Stanford data on how awful gas ovens are for families that gas ovens release nitrogen dioxide, they release carbon monoxide. They release methane even when you're not cooking with gas ovens like methane is being released into your home like your kids are breathing it in.<br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>Yea, the pilot light is on.<br /><br /><strong><a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a>: </strong>The pilot is still on, the methane is still burning and is still leaking into your home, right, not just your kitchen, but your entire house. So, your kids and grandkids are breathing that in, right? And so, like any parent is gonna be alarmed about that. It lands particularly hard with me because I grew up in a household where we didn't have heat and use our gas oven to provide heat and we would open up the windows to release the carbon monoxide and the fumes. And so, you know, we just have this intimate relationship with our gas furnace and all the chemicals that produce from a very early age. And like I don’t want that for my kids and I don’t want that for anybody else’s kids. I’m glad that the Stanford studies are coming out. I assume that other parents will read them and recoil in horror just as I am and rapidly move to switch out all of the gas appliances in your home. From a health perspective from a financial perspective because you’re gonna save money. And oh, by the way, this happens to be like the single greatest thing you can do as a family for the planet, right. And so, we just want to get that message out to as many people as we can. And that's why we’re so excited to talk with you today. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>Yeah, and a lot of people have indoor air quality monitors these days since the fires in the American West. And those are purchased for wildfire purposes, but people use them and turn on their gas stove we’ll also see a spike in those numbers. <a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a> is CEO and founder of BlocPower. Thanks again Donnel for coming on Climate One. Again, I really appreciate it.<br /><br /><strong><a href="/people/donnel-baird" hreflang="und">Donnel Baird</a>:</strong> Yeah, anytime. Always great talking with you guys.<br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>Throughout the country, people of color have long been relegated to living in “sacrifice zones” - areas near factories, landfills and other industrial facilities absorb high levels of contamination to make products that benefit people somewhere else - consumers who never see - or breathe - the pollution associated with their consumption and lifestyles. But now in one black neighborhood in Houston, a former landfill is taking on a new life that supports and connects nearby residents. </p> <p>Climate One correspondent Aubrey Calaway reports: <br /><br /><strong>Curtis Dockery: </strong>On any given day, depending on which way the wind was blowing, the stench off that dump was horrible. I can’t even describe it.<br /><br /><strong>Aubrey Calaway: </strong>This is Curtis Dockery Jr. He’s a lifelong resident of Sunnyside, a small, majority Black community in southeast Houston, Texas. Sunnyside is only a 15 minute drive from downtown Houston, but it has retained its distinctly rurban - or rural and suburban character. <br /><br /><strong>Curtis Dockery: </strong>I’ve seen Sunnyside go from the country to semi suburbs. Sunnyside was dirt roads and around 1960 they put pavement down. We have cows and horses and chickens still in Sunnyside.<br /><br /><strong>Aubrey Calaway: </strong>As the oldest Black neighborhood in southern Houston, Sunnyside has suffered from decades of environmental racism. The main culprit? The Sunnyside landfill. Residents just call it the dump.   <br /><br /><strong>Curtis Dockery:</strong> I mean it was horrible. You’ve got garbage, you’ve got manure from animals, you’ve got all kinds of stuff you can imagine the smell would go out into the community. And I don’t know how much it had to do with sickness in Sunnyside, but I do know that a lot of people in Sunnyside died from cancer. A lot of people.<br /><br /><strong>Aubrey Calaway: </strong>After a young boy drowned inside the dump in 1967, civil rights organizers began calling for its closure. The city finally closed the dump and nearby incinerator in the 1970’s. But even though the dump was capped, the site was never rehabilitated. Decades later, it seems like that might finally change. <br /><br /><strong>Mayor Sylvester Turner [PRESS CONFERENCE]:</strong> And it is my great pleasure to report that we have received approval from the Texas Commission for Environmental Quality, TCEQ, to proceed with the Sunnyside Solar Farm Project.<br /><br /><strong>Aubrey Calaway:</strong> This past April, Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner announced that the Sunnyside landfill would be converted into the largest urban solar farm in the United States. In total, 52 megawatts of solar panels will be installed over the 240 acre site. That’s enough electricity to power 12,000 homes. Efrem Jernigan, a longtime Sunnyside resident, is part of the team that made it happen. He gave me a tour of the neighborhood on a sunny day this past May.  <br /><br /><strong>Efrem Jernigan:</strong> We’re going to go to the road that for the last 70 years was called incinerator row. But we're going to change it to Solar Boulevard. <br /><br /><strong>Aubrey Calaway: </strong>Efrem is vice president of Sunnyside Solar LLC, a company formed in partnership with the two solar energy developers working on the project. It only takes a few minutes to drive from Efrem’s childhood home to the former landfill site. <br /><br /><strong>Efrem Jernigan: </strong>There are 230 acres of trees to our right. Everything to the right is 50 megawatts of solar going to the grid. Everything to our left is what's going to be community solar, which is going to be two megawatts that's going to go to the grid and we can sell it to the community at a discounted rate. <br /><br /><strong>Aubrey Calaway:</strong> In addition to affordable renewable energy, Efrem is working with the city to create a range of other community benefits, including an on-site agricultural education center and a solar workforce training program. The Sunnyside Solar project began as a C40 Reinventing Cities competition proposal. After winning the competition in 2019, the project became a centerpiece of Houston’s Climate Action Plan and Mayor Turner’s Complete Communities Initiative. To learn more about this, I spoke to Thomas Pommier, senior climate sustainability lead in the mayor’s office of Resilience and Sustainability. <br /><br /><strong>Thomas Pommier: </strong>The Office of Sustainability saw an opportunity to convert the former landfill into an asset that could contribute to reducing carbon emissions, but also address a long standing environmental injustice.<br /><br /><strong>Aubrey Calaway: </strong>The project is a key step towards Houston’s goal of becoming carbon neutral by 2050, in part by generating over 5 million megawatt hours from local solar projects per year. Despite international praise for the project and official rhetoric around environmental justice, some community members like Curtis Dockery feel left out of the conversation.<br /><br /><strong>Curtis Dockery: </strong>It seemed like that solar farm project was developed downtown and without the knowledge of the community. And we still don't know a whole lot about it.<br /><br /><strong>Aubrey Calaway:</strong> While the city does not manage direct communication with Sunnyside residents, Thomas Pommier said he expects to see continuing support both within the community and in other cities.<br /><br /><strong>Thomas Pommier:</strong> We were recently at a meeting of climate mayors And the mayors were talking about how they do steal ideas from each other and that it's a good thing because when a good thing is done somewhere, it should be replicated elsewhere if it can have similar benefits for other communities.<br /><br /><strong>Aubrey Calaway: </strong>For Climate One, I’m Aubrey Calaway.<br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>You're listening to a conversation about how cities are innovating in face of the climate crisis. This is Climate One. Coming up, how one city is demonstrating  the financial case for deconstructing and re-using building materials from vacant buildings.<br /><br /><strong>Morgan Grove:</strong> In thinking about how we assemble in a sense the financial deal for this. You have the two historic ways that we think about this is you have profit you just make money. You have revenue which is things that come from taxes and fees and everything. And then you have avoided cost. And when we put avoided costs into this financial calculus building deconstruction is way ahead. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>That’s up next, when Climate One continues.<br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>This is Climate One. I’m Greg Dalton. When buildings are abandoned or condemned, they often get demolished and dumped into landfill. But now, the US Forest Service has partnered with the city of Baltimore to hire former inmates to salvage wood from vacant buildings and make it into furniture and other products. Research scientist and team leader for the USDA Forest Service, Morgan Grove, describes “the Urban Wood Project” as “creating wealth from waste,”<br /><br /><strong>Morgan Grove:</strong> more wood goes from urban areas into landfills and is actually harvested from the US national forests. And so, one of the key things is for us to figure out ways to use that wood where it historically would be treated as a waste and to create wealth. And that wealth is in many forms. One of which is in using the wood and repurposing it for flooring for the wood chips the mulch the compost for the lesser value materials but also for making furniture. But the creating wealth goes beyond that, it goes to how we create jobs particularly we’re focused on creating jobs for people who have barriers to employment. And in doing so, we’re creating opportunities for them to earn a living and then become productive in society being able to own a house as well as at the same time reducing the costs of welfare that we have in order to support them when they're not able to work. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> That’s quite interesting equation there that you know to not dispose of wood and not to dispose of people and lives. I got to admit that when I hear that the U.S. Forest Service is involved in something as urban as this, that's a surprise to me. I’m used to seeing, you know, U.S. Forest Service out in, you know, the rural West, etc. What’s the role of the Forest Service in this urban situation?<br /><br /><strong>Morgan Grove: </strong>Well, the definition of the chief of the Forest Service is the chief or the sort of caretaker of all forests, whether it is federally owned land whether it is a street tree whether it is a tree in the backyard that the official definition of the chief of the Forest Services that person, they're responsible for the thinking about the care of all those trees. In a way when we’re taking care of wood that’s coming out of deconstructed homes were reaching back 100 years in a sense. And a lot of the wood that has appeared in those homes are now being deconstructed that have reached the end of their life cycle are in cities when they had major building booms between 1900 and 1930. And that's when a lot of wood all growth forests were cut down in order to build homes in urban areas. And that wood when it was cut down was usually somewhere between 3 to 400 years old. It will never exist again in the history or future of the earth and it is really beautiful, beautiful wood. So, in a way we’re reaching back in that. Historically, the Forest Service when it first began was a land reclamation organization. We were responsible for trying to bring back the forest in the Eastern United States that had been clear-cut and the forests were gone the wildlife was gone. There is terrible flooding terrible water quality, and those communities had depended upon the forests. Those communities were also hard-hit. And so, in a way one we’re returning to our roots of being a land reclamation organization that's linking place in the environment as well as the communities in trying to bring back and improve the environment and really going beyond sustainability to think about how we create even better environments. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>And one of the goals you’ve talked about creating furniture with some of this supply from reused wood. And I understand how that will, you know, harvesting wood from buildings means, some tree somewhere is not getting cut down the supply that wood. And one of the goals for the project is to create an urban wood economy. So, help us understand a little more other than furniture. What is this urban wood economy look like? <br /><br /><strong>Morgan Grove: </strong>So, that urban wood economy has many different forms. And one can think of what’s the most valuable use of the wood. And that could be wood that's going into furniture for making chairs, making tables making bases to lamps and things like that to then making flooring and making interior siding for walls and so on. we have the Exelon company here in Baltimore and its entire interior is made from wood that was harvested or taken out of deconstructed homes of Baltimore. So, you have those kinds of interior applications, then we can use wood also for traditional means by which to create compost and mulch and those kinds of applications. And then we have some new opportunities. One form is what's called thermally modified wood where we take wood that historically has not been very useful because of the way the crane turns or the way the wood decomposes. In the case of the Mid-Atlantic a tree species that is like that is called tulip poplar. And with thermally modified wood we basically bake it and we take all of the moisture out of the wood. And so, we’re creating carbon fiber. And it doesn't decompose at all. we’re finding a good use for trees that have grown and we’re avoiding the use of trees that really are really important for biodiversity and we’re doing it in a local way. And then the other opportunity that we have is something called biochar. And biochar is basically in a way making charcoal and it is really effective for improving water quality improving as water filters through soils. It's important for creating and improving soil in urban areas. And it's also a way to put carbon back into the system and retain carbon rather than us losing carbon into the atmosphere. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>Right. Carbon is often talked about as the enemy. And carbon is not the enemy it’s just having carbon in the right places in the soil and other places not in the atmosphere.So, one estimate says there are 30,000 vacant buildings in Baltimore. And as someone I'll confess whose image of Baltimore was shaped by the wire; I can envision that. But what’s the economic case for using wood in those buildings?<br /><br /><strong>Morgan Grove:</strong> On the number side the city estimates that they have in public ownership about 17,000 vacant homes. When you add the privately component of the vacant homes, we think we’re around maybe 40 or 41,000 vacant homes. The cost of demolition is somewhere around $9500. The cost for deconstruction is about $11,000. And it takes about two people to demolish the building. It takes six people to deconstruct the building. And deconstruction we reuse 95, 96% of the material of the wood and the brick and you know the stuff that we are unable to use because it has lead paint in it or has asbestos in it. So, those are some of your first numbers then the cost of incarceration in the state of Maryland is $37,500. The rate of recidivism in the city of Baltimore is about 48%. So, you're hiring three more people three more people to do things and you are keeping people out of prison. The rate of recidivism in the building deconstruction program is somewhere around .2%. So, we’re keeping people out of jail we’re saving money on that side. Then we’re also able to sell all that wood and all that brick that's causing you know a revenue benefit that then has us if you start to add all those things together about employing people. The revenue from employment taxes and things like that the revenue benefit of creating jobs and improving safety in these neighborhoods. And you start to think about reducing the cost of incarcerating people then we’re way below what that cost of demolition was. And so, in thinking about how we assemble in a sense the financial deal for this. You have the two historic ways that we think about this is you have profit you just make money. You have revenue which is things that come from taxes and fees and everything. And then you have avoided cost. And when we put avoided costs into this financial calculus building deconstruction is way ahead. And that seems quite compelling to reconstruct buildings and reconstruct lives. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> So, if this is so compelling is it scaling to other cities is it scaling even within Baltimore? Sounds like a pretty, the math you describe is pretty compelling. If we can get our head around avoided costs, which is sometimes hard to do. <br /><br /><strong>Morgan Grove: </strong>It is. The avoided cost it starts to play in now where as we look at social impact financing or environmental impact financing it becomes part of the deal. That where in the Forest Service and other part of the Forest Service is focused on this novel financing model set that we can engage with. There is a case for this scaling to other places. And we've actually been surprised when we give presentations with the Forest Service the landfill operator seems to be the most interested group of people in all of this and their motivation as well being just keep it out of my landfill, I'm all for it. You also have police departments who are also very interested in this because if you can create jobs and you can reduce the rate of crime, social people who are those returning citizens they see that benefit as well. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>What are the lessons learned in Baltimore that other cities should pay attention to as they think about replicating this program harvesting wood and reusing it.<br /><br /><strong>Morgan Grove:  </strong>Well, The Forest Service has what we call urban wood academies and we have people coming and usually it’s three people from a city so that they all are gaining knowledge and they, it’s really fun you see them talking to each other about how they could do this in Philadelphia or how they could do this in Sacramento and train them but it's a peer to peer learning. So, these different cities are talking to each other and what's gonna work what isn’t gonna work because we need to develop the materials meaning like training materials, but we also need to build the social network of peers that we can help to transform individual cities, but also on a national level. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>One of the most compelling parts of this story, one that really drew us to it is these formerly incarcerated people these reconstructing lives and keeping people reducing recidivism. Do you know how many people have been gone through this program? How many people the scale of that. And number two, can you give us an example, a personal story of someone who's, you know, an anecdote who's gone through that, who a success story of individual from the program.<br /><br /><strong>Morgan Grove: </strong>Sure. Well, in the case of the building deconstruction that was going on in Baltimore. There are about 200 people who went to the program. And you have people who I mean there are two people who I became friends with frankly friends with. And I would show up on the deconstruction site and they fuss at me if I didn't bring coffee is that you know one individual who admits that he was involved with a robbery that also resulted in the baker being murdered. And he went to jail for that. He came out he got involved in the building deconstruction activities. He became a foreman for the site. He became extremely knowledgeable, not only about deconstruction but also how to work in these neighborhoods. And the key thing is that we were involved in hyper local employment like we’re really trying to hire people from these neighborhoods. And so, this one person who became a foreman he was able to have a secure income and in Baltimore we know that once you are able to a person has an income over $25,000 that sort of the inflection point where they’re gonna have stability in their life. And he had more than $25,000 he was able to get married with his girlfriend. He was able to buy his own house. He was able to be able to put his daughter through college. And, you know, this was really transformative for him. Another woman who worked on it and she been in and out of jail and she had a long history of drug abuse she was a grandmother. And she was a foreman on the whole brick processing side of things and she ran the show. And, you know, she had all these guys organizing the brick processing part of things. And the income and the motivation to work in the sense of pride and accomplishment of work she got cleaned up. She had a job and she; you know, it was really important for her among everything else to just be able to be present for her grandchildren and say to them I have a job. I have a crew. I’m the boss. I'm here I'm present. <br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>Morgan Grove is Research Scientist for the US Department of Agriculture Forest Service in Baltimore working on the wood economy with the Urban Wood Project. Morgan, thanks for sharing the stories of reclaiming wood and personal redemption. <br /><br /><strong>Morgan Grove: </strong>Thank you. My pleasure to be with you.<br /><br /><strong>Greg Dalton: </strong>On this Climate One, we’ve been talking about how cities are taking the lead on buildings that reduce carbon emissions and provide jobs and better quality of life. Climate One’s empowering conversations connect all aspects of the climate emergency. To hear more, subscribe to our podcast wherever you get your pods.Talking about climate can be hard-- but it’s critical to address the transitions we need to make in all parts of society. Please help us get people talking more about climate by giving us a rating or review if you are listening on Apple. You can do it right now on your device. You can also help by sending a link to this episode to a friend. By sharing you can help people have their own deeper climate conversations. <br /><br />Brad Marshland is our senior producer; our producers and audio editors are Ariana Brocious and Austin Colón. Megan Biscieglia is our production manager. Our team also includes Sara-Katherine Coxon. Our theme music was composed by George Young (and arranged by Matt Willcox). Gloria Duffy is CEO of The Commonwealth Club of California, the nonprofit and nonpartisan forum where our program originates. I’m Greg Dalton. </p> <p><br /><br /><br /> </p> </div> <div class="field-related-podcasts field--label-hidden field__items"> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100148"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-image="/files/images/2023-09/Podpage.png">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=v7PnFYU2 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=uGIVGeOc 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=v7PnFYU2" alt="People stand on a collapsing rock ledge" alt="People stand on a collapsing rock ledge" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health">Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">September 8, 2023</div> </span> Since the industrial revolution, the global north has seen massive economic growth. And today, many believe continued growth to be the engine of a… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-09/Podpage.png"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health.mp3" href="/api/audio/100148"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100148"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100128"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-image="/files/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=N4bwtMoT 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=fzc4plXe 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=N4bwtMoT" alt="Bikers navigate a city street next to a bus" alt="Bikers navigate a city street next to a bus" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city">Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">August 11, 2023</div> </span> Can you imagine if everything you needed in your everyday life was just a walk or bike ride away? That’s the goal of the 15-minute City, a new name… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City.mp3" href="/api/audio/100128"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100128"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="25659"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/electrify-everything" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC3512079745.mp3" data-node="25659" data-title="Electrify Everything" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod website-Electrify Everything.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20website-Electrify%20Everything.jpg?itok=0U4LuPtx 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod%20website-Electrify%20Everything.jpg?itok=aS1yJZrF 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1500" height="1500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20website-Electrify%20Everything.jpg?itok=0U4LuPtx" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/electrify-everything">Electrify Everything</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">October 29, 2021</div> </span> In the not-to-distant future, your entire home could be electric – from your stove to your water heater to the car you drive. 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11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/25659"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="25258"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/covid-19-and-climate-future-energy" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20200522_cl1_Future_of_Energy_PODCAST.mp3" data-node="25258" data-title=" COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod-COVID Energy.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg?itok=eBhMkjmL 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg?itok=NPqpoXLG 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="2500" height="2500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg?itok=eBhMkjmL" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/covid-19-and-climate-future-energy"> COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">May 22, 2020</div> </span> If you lived through the oil crisis of the 1970’s, you remember lines of cars at the gas stations, waiting to fill up on “alternate days.” Now, after… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="25258" data-title=" COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20200522_cl1_Future_of_Energy_PODCAST.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" 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fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24907"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/cities-future-where-life-meets-design" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20190712_cl1_Cities_for_the_Future_PODCAST.mp3" data-node="24907" data-title="Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design" data-image="/files/images/media/PRX Life Meets Design.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=5yJolTin 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=PW1reF4A 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1600" height="1600" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=5yJolTin" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/cities-future-where-life-meets-design">Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">July 12, 2019</div> </span> When Ridley Scott envisioned the dystopian Los Angeles of 2019 in “Blade Runner,” he probably didn’t think about how much energy would be needed to… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24907" data-title="Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20190712_cl1_Cities_for_the_Future_PODCAST.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design.mp3" href="/api/audio/24907"><svg class="download" width="8" 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stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24454"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/new-wheels-town" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20180715_cl1_NewWheelsInTown.mp3" data-node="24454" data-title="New Wheels in Town" data-image="/files/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg?itok=dB6l5VXj 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg?itok=AzzdOozk 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1000" height="1215" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg?itok=dB6l5VXj" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/new-wheels-town">New Wheels in Town</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">June 20, 2018</div> </span> Electric scooters, skateboards and bicycles are popping up all over in cities all over the country. Ride-hailing companies are also moving to two… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24454" data-title="New Wheels in Town" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20180715_cl1_NewWheelsInTown.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="New Wheels in Town.mp3" href="/api/audio/24454"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/24454"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24007"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/how-cities-can-solve-climate-challenge" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20170604_cl1_How_Cities_Can_Solve.mp3" data-node="24007" data-title="How Cities can Solve the Climate Challenge" data-image="">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/event/2017.05.04%20How%20Cities%20Can%20Solve%20Climate%20Upcoming%20Events%20Size.jpg?itok=QPIEs6-F 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/event/2017.05.04%20How%20Cities%20Can%20Solve%20Climate%20Upcoming%20Events%20Size.jpg?itok=64zoHOPe 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1000" height="563" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/event/2017.05.04%20How%20Cities%20Can%20Solve%20Climate%20Upcoming%20Events%20Size.jpg?itok=QPIEs6-F" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/how-cities-can-solve-climate-challenge">How Cities can Solve the Climate Challenge</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">May 5, 2017</div> </span> Cities around the country are reshaping their economies for a greener future. Mayors and chambers of commerce are promoting smart growth and moving… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24007" data-title="How Cities can Solve the Climate Challenge" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20170604_cl1_How_Cities_Can_Solve.mp3" data-image="/files/images/event/2017.05.04%20How%20Cities%20Can%20Solve%20Climate%20Upcoming%20Events%20Size.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="How Cities can Solve the Climate Challenge.mp3" href="/api/audio/24007"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/24007"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="23968"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/c1-revue-does-greening-economy-leave-some-people-behind" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/C1Revue_2017-05_Greening_the_Economy.mp3" data-node="23968" data-title="C1 Revue: Does Greening The Economy Leave Some People Behind?" data-image="/files/images/media/20161005Climate One_Power Politics-0017 copy.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/20161005Climate%20One_Power%20Politics-0017%20copy.jpg?itok=-cQPjXr6 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/20161005Climate%20One_Power%20Politics-0017%20copy.jpg?itok=eo9Dy0oH 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1000" height="667" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/20161005Climate%20One_Power%20Politics-0017%20copy.jpg?itok=-cQPjXr6" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/c1-revue-does-greening-economy-leave-some-people-behind">C1 Revue: Does Greening The Economy Leave Some People Behind?</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">April 30, 2017</div> </span> Cities are leading the way in the greening of America’s economy. From urban parks and farms to microgrids and living buildings, dynamic urban… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="23968" data-title="C1 Revue: Does Greening The Economy Leave Some People Behind?" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/C1Revue_2017-05_Greening_the_Economy.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/20161005Climate%20One_Power%20Politics-0017%20copy.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="C1 Revue: Does Greening The Economy Leave Some People Behind?.mp3" href="/api/audio/23968"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/23968"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> </div> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg?itok=U8Jk8mxj 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg?itok=MS3EvyYh 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1200" height="1200" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg?itok=U8Jk8mxj" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/rebuilding-climate-successful-city-strategies" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC5913416983.mp3" data-node="25814" data-title="Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod webpage -Rebuilding.jpg">Play</a> Fri, 24 Jun 2022 07:01:00 +0000 Otto Pilot 25814 at https://www.climateone.org COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy https://www.climateone.org/audio/covid-19-and-climate-future-energy COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy<span class="field field--name-uid field--type-entity-reference field--label-hidden"><span>Otto Pilot</span></span> <span class="field field--name-created field--type-created field--label-hidden">Thu, 05/21/2020 - 4:09 pm</span> <div class="field__item">&nbsp;</div> <div class="field__item"><p dir="ltr">If you lived through the oil crisis of the 1970’s, you remember lines of cars at the gas stations, waiting to fill up on “alternate days.” Now, after decades of relying on imported oil, the U.S. achieved the unthinkable and became the world’s largest producer. Production has doubled over the past decade, and in February reached its highest level ever - thirteen million barrels a day. </p> <p dir="ltr">But as it turns out, all of that overabundance, combined with the current coronavirus pandemic, has led to a different kind of oil crisis. </p> <p dir="ltr">“We’re producing more oil and gas than ever and this industry’s stocks are tanking,” says Amy Harder, energy reporter for Axios. “And that was because they have basically drilled their way into financial hell where there’s obviously zero coordination.  </p> <p dir="ltr">“So everybody is just producing more and more oil and there’s too much oil in the world before demand dropped off a cliff.”</p> <p dir="ltr">The nationwide shut-down caused by COVID-19 has taken its toll on the economy, with the fossil fuel industry being one of the biggest losers.</p> <p dir="ltr">“Normally you would see prices fall, people would stop investing and start to have some declines in production,” says Jason Bordoff of the Center on Global Energy Policy. “We don't have enough places physically to store all of this oil that was being produced.”</p> <p dir="ltr">But not all kinds of energy are suffering the same. As Harder explains, renewables are experiencing unprecedented growth.</p> <p dir="ltr">“And now that it exists all over the world,” she continues, “it's going to be the plant that stays running when, you know, countries and companies can shut down coal and natural gas plants.”</p> <p dir="ltr">What will be the lasting impact of the COVID-19 recession? How will this reshape use of clean energy sources in the years to come?</p> <p dir="ltr">In a post-pandemic world, we can hardly expect that everything will return to the way it was before. Until a reliable vaccine is developed, air travel, retail shopping, dining out, going to school and other aspects of life will be drastically altered to reduce the risk of infection. Rather than striving for the green workplace of the future, many companies may decide that the future means no workplace at all.</p> <p dir="ltr">“I think it’s just a step too far removed to try to make the argument that buildings need to be more energy efficient in this new world,” says Harder. “I think …companies might be looking to invest less in their buildings and more in telework opportunities.”</p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Additional interview</strong>: Chris Rawlings, founder of Veteran L.E.D. </p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Related Links:</strong><br /><a href="https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-20/negative-prices-for-oil-here-s-what-that-means-quicktake">Oil prices go below zero (Bloomberg)</a><br /><a href="https://www.politicalclimatepodcast.com/">Political Climate podcast</a><br /><a href="https://www.axios.com/trump-energy-energy-chief-carbon-emissions-oil-b30307ce-85a2-41e6-9697-276044ebccf3.html">Carbon emissions, oil and more (Axios)</a><br /><a href="https://energypolicy.columbia.edu/">Columbia Center on Global Energy Policy</a><br /><a href="https://generatecapital.com/">Generate Capital</a></p> <div> <div> <div> <p>This program was recorded via live stream on May 6, 2020.</p> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="cards cards_sideswipe small_square"> <div class="container title"> <h2>Guests</h2> </div> <div class="container sideswipe"><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="25075"> <figure> <a href="/people/amy-harder"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Harder.jpg?itok=j0WQKfPN 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/person/Harder.jpg?itok=DfkxbkXT 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="400" height="480" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Harder.jpg?itok=j0WQKfPN" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/amy-harder">Amy Harder</a></h1> <div class="title">Energy Reporter, Axios</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="15930"> <figure> <a href="/people/jason-bordoff"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Bordoff_Jason.jpg?itok=BUkeYxzW 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/person/Bordoff_Jason.jpg?itok=NJW-O1Oh 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="2832" height="2832" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Bordoff_Jason.jpg?itok=BUkeYxzW" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/jason-bordoff">Jason Bordoff</a></h1> <div class="title">Founding Director, Center on Global Energy Policy, Columbia University</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="24263"> <figure> <a href="/people/scott-jacobs"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Scott%20Jacobs%20%281%29%20%282%29_0.jpeg?itok=eQSbkk6W 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/person/Scott%20Jacobs%20%281%29%20%282%29_0.jpeg?itok=t4oVMSEq 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1000" height="960" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Scott%20Jacobs%20%281%29%20%282%29_0.jpeg?itok=eQSbkk6W" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/scott-jacobs">Scott Jacobs</a></h1> <div class="title">CEO and Co-founder, Generate Capital</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="25235"> <figure> <a href="/people/julia-pyper"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/pyper.jpg?itok=d-CQv8zz 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/person/pyper.jpg?itok=UGz_Y5sw 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1520" height="1552" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/pyper.jpg?itok=d-CQv8zz" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/julia-pyper">Julia Pyper</a></h1> <div class="title">Host and Producer, Political Climate Podcast</div> </article> </div><div class="col empty"></div> </div> </div><h1 class="node__title"> COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy</h1> <div class="field__item"><time datetime="2020-05-22T12:00:00Z" class="datetime">05/22/2020</time> </div> <div class="share-this"> <div><a 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fill="black"/></g><defs><clipPath id="clip0_479_3577"><rect width="32.5909" height="28" fill="white" transform="translate(0 0.240234)"/></clipPath></defs></svg></a></div> </div> <div class="field__item"><p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> This is Climate One. I’m Greg Dalton. On today’s program: chaos in oil markets.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a></strong>:  Normally you would see prices fall, people would stop investing and start to have some declines in production.  We don't have enough places physically to store all of this oil that was being produced.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> The coronavirus pandemic has taken its toll on the economy, with the fossil fuel industry being one of the biggest losers. But not all kinds of energy are suffering the same. </p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a></strong>: And that’s because unlike a decade ago in the economic recession in 2008 and ’09, there’s an incredible growth in the renewable energy industry.  And now that it exists all over the world, it's going to be the plant that stays running when, you know, countries and companies can shut down coal and natural gas plants. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> COVID-19 and climate: the future of energy. Up next on Climate One.</p> <p>---</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  How will the COVID-19 crisis shape the future of energy?Climate One conversations feature oil companies and environmentalists, Republicans and Democrats, the exciting and the scary aspects of the climate challenge. I’m Greg Dalton.</p> <p>After decades of relying on imported oil, the U.S. achieved the unthinkable and became the world’s largest producer. Production has doubled over the past decade, and in February reached its highest level ever - thirteen million barrels a day. But as it turns out, all of that overabundance has led to a different kind of oil crisis.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a></strong>: They have basically drilled their way into financial hell where there’s...obviously zero coordination.  So everybody is just producing more and more oil and there’s too much oil in the world before demand dropped off a cliff. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a> covers energy and climate change for Axios, and is a former reporter with The Wall Street Journal. What does the sudden plunge in oil prices bode for the economy? <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a>, a White House energy advisor to President Obama and Founding Director of the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University, has a fairly dire prediction.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a>:</strong>  So you’re gonna see U.S. shale production which was 13 million probably down something like 3 million by the end of the year. Hundreds of thousands of people in oil producing states, Oklahoma, Texas, North Dakota, etc. losing their job.  </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> My guests today include Bordoff and Harder along with two other experts. <a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a>, CEO and cofounder of Generate Capital, and <a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a>, co-host and producer of the Political Climate Podcast and a contributing editor at Greentech Media.</p> <p>They’re all joining me from their homes to talk about the future of energy. What will be the lasting impact of the COVID-19 recession? How will this reshape use of clean energy sources in the years to come? </p> <p>Let’s start with the current nailbiter - U.S. oil prices. Past presidents have counted on cheap gas prices in election years to help usher them back into the White House. By contrast, the current president has been talking up the price of oil. What does the plummeting market mean for the industry and for our economy? <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a> offers his perspective.</p> <p><strong>PROGRAM PART 1</strong></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a></strong>:  Yeah, it’s pretty extraordinary for President Trump.  Not by any president in election year to celebrate higher gasoline prices, this one in particular because he spent most of his presidency complaining about gasoline prices not being low enough and has a long history of attacking OPEC.  We’ve seen this unprecedented collapse in oil prices and in oil demand, obviously a result of putting the economy on hold to deal with the pandemic.  30 million barrels a day that’s 30% of global oil demand just wiped out in April prices falling.  And the United States, you know, a decade ago was importing 60% of our oil.  Now we are on the cusp of being a net oil exporter.  So we basically stopped importing any oil at all.  What that means is an oil price spike or an oil price crash hits our economy differently today than it did before.  It still saves consumer’s money at the pump although we’re not driving that much anyway because people are on lockdown that doesn’t help them as much.  But you’re gonna see more negative impacts in different states that produce oil for workers in those industries and that’ll be larger today than was the case ten years ago.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  And we’ll get into that a little more later how oil is a bigger part of our domestic economy.  <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>, first I wanna ask you about a Bette Midler tweet that you told me about that kind of captures this moment.  What did Bette Midler tweet?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a></strong>:  Yeah, well I’m a Bette Midler fan so I noticed her tweets.  And the other day she tweeted something along the lines of “I feel like I’m 16 again, grounded and I can’t go out and drive.”  And, you know, that’s kind of the public sentiment of the vast majority of the world which is not the oil industry.  All of us kind of find it a little funny that gasoline prices are going to the toilet and we’re all mostly stuck at home.  So this is a historic collapse in the industry as Jason said but most people don’t really care.  And, you know, the oil industry has never been a sector about exactly engendered, you know, good will and sympathy.  But because of the incredible growth in oil production and gas over the last decade it is a bigger part of our economy.  But as long as we have people like Bette Midler tweeting jokes about the oil industry in crisis I think it’s gonna be hard to really convey to people that this is a crisis unlike say if gasoline and oil prices were skyrocketing.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  We’re hearing that oil is a bigger part of the American economy, but, <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>, energy is a shrinking part of the S&amp;P 500. The value of energy stocks is a smaller part of Wall Street than it was 10 years ago.  So help us understand how it's bigger and smaller at the same time.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a></strong>:  Yeah, well, I think an important part to understand about this corona crisis in particular is that the oil and gas industry was not doing very well before this crisis.  I had done a column several weeks ago I supposed, a couple of months ago, at this point and the headline was we’re producing more oil and gas than ever and this industry stocks are tanking.  And that was because they have basically drilled their way into financial hell where there’s not a lot of, there’s obviously zero coordination.  So everybody is just producing more and more oil and there’s too much oil in the world before demand dropped off a cliff.  And so there’s been a big financial headache within particularly producers and the United States and Texas and other places in the Permian Basin.  And so that’s why even though the industry is producing more than ever but doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re doing well financially and that’s the disconnect that I think people don’t quite understand.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  Other disconnect, we have people talk about energy there’s this, you all know well, there’s the liquid fuels transportation for cars and planes and there’s the power side, the electricity side.  <a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a>, Fatih Birol, who is head of the International Energy Association said that only renewables are holding up well in this time.  So let's move to the power side the electricity side.  How are renewables being affected by this?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a></strong>:  Well, in general, people still need their power.  And whether they’re at home or they’re at work they’re consuming it.  And as we all know turning off your power is not really an option for businesses or consumers.  And so paying your power bill is also something that people don't think about as an optional idea.  And we have continued to need power, whether or not we’re driving around in cars partly because we don't have enough electric cars that would be taking the power and propelling us with mobility.  But in general, what we’re seeing is the power demand is still pretty high.  And we've seen over the last 10 years an increasing amount of that power supplied by renewable electricity here in the U.S.  And that has no signs of abating.  It is the cheapest form of power for two thirds of the world’s population.  And so the new capacity additions that we’re seeing in terms of power sector growth is increasingly renewable power capacity and has already been the majority of new power capacity built over the last decade because of the economics.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a>, I wanna bring in the human connection here because often we talk a lot about energy it gets very abstract.  You’ve been reporting on the connection between the African-American communities and COVID and energy.  So tell us about that connection.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a></strong>:  Yeah, well, it’s so easy and important to focus on the industries at play here.  A lot of wealth is being moved around and lost and jobs etc.  But there's also a very human impact tied to this.  Part of it is that I think the latest tally is around a million African-American or people of color live near oil and gas facilities.  And a Harvard study came out recently showing that people in those areas are disproportionately vulnerable to upper respiratory illnesses like the coronavirus.  And indeed we are seeing death rates in those communities being much higher than in other areas.  So there is a link here between oil and gas when we’re talking about industry perspective how that plays out to this corona virus crisis and how it’s affecting human lives right now.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a>, more people working in the industry as you mentioned before.  I’ve seen numbers of like 10 million people direct and indirect and who’s being hurt by this?  I mean obviously energy is a boom and bust this is nothing new, but maybe different in terms of magnitude or how much it’s hurting Americans.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a></strong>:  Yeah, it is different given that the United States is producing 13 million barrels a day.  We produce about 5 million in 2008.  So just a huge increase in employment in the sector.  And the scale the magnitude and the rapidity as Amy set of this collapse is really unprecedented.  So to lose 30% of global oil demand that quickly it’s normally you would see prices fall people would stop investing and start to have some declines in production.  We don't have enough places physically to store all of this oil that was being produced.  And so what we needed to do around the world was have prices go low enough that it give people an incentive to just shut in production.  In the middle of a wellproducing, stop it.  And if you look at the 10 million barrels a day of highest cost supply in the world that’s about 10% there’s a 100 million consumers in the world.  40% of that is in North America.  So you're seeing United States and you’re seeing Canada get hit particularly hard.  So you’re gonna see U.S. shale production which you said was 13 million probably down something like 3 million by the end of the year.  Hundreds of thousands of people in oil producing states, Oklahoma, Texas, North Dakota, etc. losing their job.  And I think as Amy said a minute ago, one important point there was this was already a sector that have fallen out of this favor because of political and social pressures around ESG concerns and because they weren’t that profitable for many of them recently anyway.  Shale after this will not look the same as shale before this.  It will still be there it will still be a large contributor to global oil supply it will still grow every year.  But you may track maybe a couple hundred thousand barrels a day not one or one and a half million barrels per day per year in part because you’re gonna see more difficulty access in capital for some production that probably wasn’t economic in the first place.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>, what does that mean for the kind of oil industry that United States is gonna have?  Is it gonna be smaller is it gonna be more consolidated with larger companies that buy up little ones during the crisis? What's this gonna mean?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a></strong>:  Corona virus for all industries really it’s less about one industry versus another.  And it's more about big versus little.  So the big restaurants are doing fine and the little guys are struggling.  The big airlines are doing better and the smaller airlines are doing worse.  So very same probably even to a more critical degree in the oil and gas industry is the smaller companies more domestic focused that are probably going out of business.  We’ve already had a few bankruptcies.  </p> <p>And so I think overall the industry from consumer's perspective won’t change a lick, we’ll go to the gasoline station and for the next at least 6 to 9 months prices at the pump will be quite cheap.  Although in a few years’ time they could be quite high because of this downturn.  But behind the scenes the industry will be more consolidated and I think there’s an open question and I think you’ve seen some big global oil companies, particularly those in Europe like BP and Shell really recommit their commitments to clean energy a small portion of their capital but nonetheless their goal is on clean energy.  And I think given how low oil prices have gone and the volatility that the industry has experienced, I think for some, it could change the industry to be even more open to renewables, which although they may not have historically gotten the returns that oil and gas have that it’s far more stable which says a lot.  And I think that's one reason why investors are have been pulling out of oil and gas.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a></strong>:  Greg, can I ask a little bit of as doubted here for a moment.  There is some Apple data on mobile devices on who is moving on what mode of transit.  And car use is already spiking.  So we just have to separate I guess the consumer usage of the fuel and then the difficulty in the industry itself.  Because you could actually see a big rebound in the relatively near term of fossil fuel and gasoline use.  And another stat that kind of shines a light on this is even amid shutting down global economies and the turmoil in the oil sector.  There was only an 8% or an expected 8% decline in emissions this year, according to the IEA.  The world has to achieve an 8% emissions decline every year for the next decade and even shutting down the economy didn't do that.  So if your goal is decarbonization, fuel use and where that fuel comes from and the carbon intensity of it is going to be a continuing issue even in the current economic turmoil we’re seeing right now.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a>, I get chills when I hear numbers like that.  That if we got to do this year after year after year what is that can we do it.  I get stopped in my tracks when I hear that magnitude.  Screeching the global economy to a halt and that's the kind of thing we need year after year.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a></strong>:  Yeah, it’s a daunting challenge to think about solving climate change or bending the curve sufficiently to avoid catastrophic effects of it.  I think we all know how energy plays one of many roles in that equation.  And as much as we're making a tremendous amount of progress with what people call the energy transition where you're taking a dirty energy supply and replacing it with a clean energy supply a lower carbon energy supply.  It is not, we’re not seeing the same progress in a lot of the other sources of emissions becoming decarbonized.  Whether it's the transportation sector we’re talking about now, the agricultural sector we’re talking about but perhaps most importantly industry and buildings.  Where we have not found better ways to decarbonize those emissions sources in the same way that we’ve found economically driven ways to decarbonized power, right.  So the energy transition that most people talk about is really about power.  And we’re going from dirty sources of power generation like coal to cleaner sources like wind and solar.  And that transition is underway and it's unequivocal and it's unabated because the economics drive it.  But when you start thinking about thermal processes like cement production or aluminum or steel and you think about the building sector and the need to heat buildings which we use natural gas primarily for.  You start seeing just how daunting the problem is given the timescale that folks like the UN and others tell us we need to act against.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a>, what I hear there is that the GDP equals energy equals emissions and just nothing structurally changing right now.  People are gonna hop back in their cars, we’re gonna go back to where we were and there's not really any climate progress coming out of this.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a></strong>:  I’m worried about that I mean I don’t disagree with anything that you said or that Julia said a minute ago.  So I made the comment that I think shale will be taken down a peg, but that’s not the same as saying we’re making progress to a deep decarbonization in any sense of the word.  I think as Amy said, we don’t know exactly how quickly the economy will recover.  The International Energy Agency, the Energy Information Administration both say oil demand will be back to their pre-COVID levels by, pretty close to there, by the end of the year.  Maybe it takes longer than that if we have a second wave, unfortunately, there’s possibility there. </p> <p>But within a year or two, I think we will be back pretty close to where we were before.  And as you just heard, you know, 4.2 billion people around the world are under lockdown.  And this year emissions will be down according to the IEA 5.5%.  That’s a pretty sobering reminder of how hard it is to decarbonize the world for all the reasons that you just heard.  And as Scott said, you know, the history of energy has actually not been one of transitions it's been one of additions.  Where if you look at this on a scale of zero to hundred percent we see these great shifts from oil to coal to oil to gas and now renewables.  But if you look at it not as a share of the total but in total BTU, total amount of energy, we just keep adding to the stack of meeting growing global energy demand with new and increasingly cleaner forms of energy.  But meeting the climate challenge because carbon math, you know, once a ton is up there it’s gonna be up there for a long time.  I mean it’s not just meeting incremental growth in energy demand would yield cleaner sources of energy but replacing the 80% of our energy that comes from hydrocarbons and 80% hasn't changed in 30 years.  It’s been 80% for the last 30 years, even as the amount of energy used the denominator in that 80% has gotten bigger and bigger.</p> <p>---</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> You’re listening to a Climate One conversation about reducing carbon emissions with clean energy. Coming up, building the green workplace of the future - should we even bother?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>: </strong>I think it’s just a step too far removed to try to make the argument that buildings need to be more energy efficient in this new world. I think people, you know, companies might be looking to invest less in their buildings and more in telework opportunities. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> That’s up next, when Climate One continues.</p> <p> </p> <p>---</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  This is Climate One. I’m Greg Dalton. We’re talking about the future of the energy industry in a post-pandemic world. My guests are <a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a> of the Political Climate podcast, <a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a> of Generate Capital, <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>, energy reporter for Axios, and <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a> of the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University. </p> <p>When the worst of the COVID-19 crisis is over, many of us will return to our workplaces - but they may look and feel very different. Chris Rawlings is founder and CEO of Veteran LED. It’s a lighting and energy company based in Richmond, Virginia, which services commercial and industrial businesses. Rawlings has an optimistic take on the industry's future, which is directly linked to the aftereffects of the coronavirus pandemic.</p> <p><strong>PROGRAM PART 2</strong></p> <p><strong>Chris Rawlings</strong>: I think the health of the inhabitants of these buildings is obviously gonna be a focal point moving forward because of the impact of COVID-19 and indoor air quality and just healthy environments, interior and exterior that surround these buildings that kind of falls into environmental and sustainability initiatives as well.  I think you’re gonna see a lot of projects move forward now based on how comfortable they make that business owner or that building owner feel about having their customers and their employees returned to that building and that building being in tip top shape.  So they're minimally exposed to any future virus pandemics.  And I think people are gonna start looking at different technologies that are proven that have been out there awhile and saying, yeah, we need to start adopting these technologies and start implementing these procedures because you can’t put a cost on someone's life.</p> <p>[END CLIP]</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  That was Chris Rawlings, founder and CEO of Veteran LED.  A lighting and energy management company in Richmond, Virginia.  <a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a>, you are very optimistic about the path for electrifying buildings.  And you seemed to be nodding there when he was talking about the way we approach buildings will be different after COVID.  Comfort and can energy efficiency be part of that to electrify buildings, which we know is a big part of that hasn’t been tackled yet.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a></strong>:  Yes, so first of all I couldn't agree more with the comments that he was making about the motivations for building owners and occupiers needing to respond to the crisis with a healthier environment for employees and healthier air quality both inside and outside buildings.  I do think a lot of what he's saying is that there is a growing attention to the concept of resilience.  And we’ve used the word sustainability a lot in these circles when we talk about clean energy we talk about climate change.  But really what we should be talking about is resilience.  And whether it's COVID or whether it's climate change or whether it's macroeconomic shocks of other forms, companies are making better and better decisions about how to be resilient to those exogenous forces and clean energy is one such measure.  Certainly you can see the economics compelling people in addition to the desire to be resilient to these shocks when you think about something like LEDs.  They are simply cheaper to use than the alternative and that capital expenditures are often a challenging barrier to sale for things like LEDs and other energy efficiency measures, there are a lot of financial services players like Generate out there solving that problem.  We take the capital risk and we take the operational risk so that customers don't have to.  And there are a lot of ways that customers don't have to actually make a capital expenditure in order to get the benefits of either more resilience or cheaper energy or frankly fewer emissions.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>, that touches on the whole idea of sort of, you know, where is the money gonna go after this.  We suddenly, Washington DC, governments around the world are throwing trillions of dollars at coronavirus.  How is that gonna affect the ability to invest in cleaner energy in infrastructure? Is all the money gonna have to come from companies because the public treasuries are all tapped out?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a></strong>:  Yeah, well, just a quick comment in response to the discussion just now.  I would have to disagree somewhat about obviously the LED company wants to sell itself in this what I’m calling this grave new world.  But I think it’s just a bit step too far removed to try to make the argument that buildings need to be more energy efficient in this new world.  I mean, I think people, you know, companies might be looking to invest less in their buildings and more in telework opportunities or, you know, new desks that allow social distancing.  I just think it’s important to remember those of us who live and breathe the energy and climate space to remember that a lot of times most of the time and particularly this moment in time the public is just not thinking about these issues.  And I think it’s important to keep that in mind.  And so I think it's a hard connection to make I think to talk about ways to make commercial buildings more energy efficient when people might be going to them less and there might be less of a reason to invest in that space.</p> <p>And then going to your question about where the investment overall could come.  I think in the next 6 to 9 months it’s going to be a question mark in terms of whether or not the U.S. Congress and other countries around the world really try to put a green veneer and inject some green spending into their stimulus plans.  I tend to think in the short term at least as long as President Trump is in the White House that remains quite unlikely.  And I think and even after that let’s say Joe Biden wins I mean by January 2021 hopefully the economy is doing better by then and all the big stimulus packages are over by then. </p> <p>But that all being said, I mean I think to something that were said earlier, I mean, the IEA knows that renewable energy is actually the one type of energy that’s expected to grow a little bit still this year.  And that’s because unlike a decade ago in the economic recession in 2008 and ’09, there’s an incredible growth in the renewable energy industry.  And now that it exists all over the world, it's going to be the plant that stays running when, you know, countries and companies can shut down coal and natural gas plants.  So I think that’s a huge advantage to renewable energy and I think that’s one reason why we continue to see investment in that space even as the economy craters.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a>, how has this changed domestic politics and particularly in the U.S. Senate with the states because we've always had energy exporting states.  But now do they have more muscle and how does that connect to the international scene where you have senators trying to connect with Saudi Arabia, etc. because of what's happening globally?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a></strong>:  Yeah, well, you certainly see more states on a larger share of the economies in those states that feels pain when we see an oil collapse like this, which is why many senators Texas, Oklahoma, North Dakota, Alaska put a lot of pressure and President Trump put a lot of pressure on particularly Saudi Arabia and Russia to try to do what they could which was something but not enough to try to deal with this oil price collapse.  You also have more and more states as Scott and others know really well that have a stake in renewable energy as well now too including in red states.  And so I just wanna make one, you know, one observation on the point that was just raised and what Amy said about the IEA showing renewables will actually grow this year partly because it’s how cheap they’ve become.  It’s also because they get policy support.  They became that cheap because of policy support and they’re first one to dispatch because usually you have policy that requires that.  And so I think there are some ways in which you could see behavioral changes. People enjoy working remotely or maybe they want to be more energy-efficient.  That could come out of COVID-19 that could be positive you could see stimulus or some other economic recovery that starts to address climate change.</p> <p>But we’re not gonna get anywhere close to the kind of what we just said we need to see 8% declines year on year taking 1.5° or 2° warming seriously without much stronger policy that changes the incentives that businesses have and individuals have for how they produce and consume energy.  And what I'm worried about is that history suggests that when economies are struggling and people feel pinched in their pocket the ambition of environmental policy can often wane. And climate we all know more than almost any other problem requires global cooperation to sell because it is fundamentally collective action free rider problem.  It doesn't matter where a ton of CO2 comes from and unfortunately, we've already seem to retreat from global cooperation and that make it worse after this pandemic as countries isolate themselves and put up walls more.  I’m worried about that.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a>, you host the Political Climate Podcast.  People often say there's plenty of supply policy supply there’s plenty of policies out there.  What is in short supply is the political will to enact them and move them forward.  How do you see this crisis changing the politics of clean and brown energy in the United States?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a></strong>:  Well, I think the jobs is really where the political discussion lies in any meaningful way.  And in March alone the stats were that over a 100,000 people lost their jobs in clean energy.  Most of that is inefficiency; people can’t get into homes and buildings but 16,000 were in wind and solar and that’s just in the month of March alone.  As far as we know we don’t have the numbers for April just yet.  But that’s across the nation that affects every representative district.  So I do see there being some interest in getting some policy support on that front as far as I know infrastructure has been moved to the back seat in congress right now.  Discussion of including that in a stimulus is not front of mind for anyone even though President Trump has actually expressed interest in it and Democrats as well, Mitch McConnell not so much. </p> <p>And then there, you know, it’s interesting there were some data that’s coming out or just came out from Data for Progress and it showed that there is broad support across the country for things like supporting sustainable small farmers.  Things that are not top of mind for me usually but that polled really high.  Things like creating a national climate core for people to work planting trees.  I remember this planting millions and billions of trees concept; it actually polls quite well.  And it may not solve all of our climate issues but it could put people back to work.  So what will be interesting is whether anyone really has the appetite to take on those quirky and new and different kinds of policy; they’re not traditionally what we’re used to.  More likely we’ll have a discussion around clean energy tax credits whether or not that gets back on the table as part of a package to come.  But I will note that there’s something like $40 billion I think sitting in the Department of Energy right now that's not being spent that could be used to support clean technologies of various kinds.  Could be used to put people back to work under various authority.  So that could be something that the government can look at without even Congress’ input. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a>, though there’s a particular orientation in this administration for that Title VII money, that $40 billion, right.  Tell us about that.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a></strong>:  Yeah, my understanding is that most of it is for clean coal and nuclear buildout.  And unfortunately, you know, it still depends on other actors being rational and other actors are rational and are not choosing to deploy technologies that make no economic sense like clean coal currently and unlike some of the advanced nuclear for which that money has been earmarked.  At the end of the day we still have to go back to the economic proposition to the customer and deliver to the customer the most affordable, reliable energy.  And the things that this administration has chosen to embrace like coal do not offer the most affordable, reliable electricity anymore.  They once did, but they do not any longer and there's no surprise as a result that even since 2016 when this administration came into the office we've seen coal power generation drop by 30% to 50% depending on sort of what time of the year or what geography you're talking about.  It’s been completely displaced half by gas and half by renewables.  And for the same reason in both cases: they’re cheaper.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  We’re gonna go to our lightning round with our guests here today at Climate One.  Starting with true or false questions then association.  So first true or false.   <a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a>.  True or false, you will ride the Los Angeles light rail again this year?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a>:</strong>  Hundred percent, true.  Just looked at moving right next to it.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a>.  True or false, you will ride the New York subway again this year?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a></strong>:  I think that's true.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>:  True or false.  <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>, you are desperately waiting for olive oil to go under $2 a barrel?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>:</strong>  I do need more olive oil.  And that was another joke I saw on Twitter when oil prices tanked, somebody tweeted, “Let me know when olive oil is under $2 a barrel.” I pay good money for good olive oil</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a>.  True or false, when creating Columbia Energy Exchange podcast you found inspiration from the Climate One podcast?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a>:</strong>  It’s true, you know, I’m a regular listener, especially when I'm cycling and that's absolutely true.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  Cycling safely I hope.  <a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a>.  True or false, when creating the Political Climate podcast you also found inspiration from the Climate One podcast?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a>:</strong>  Absolutely.  Took inspiration from anyone.  It’s a crowded space and Jason’s podcast as well, everyone and we try to add a bipartisan element to it and have a new twist.  And it’s so great to see everyone really adding to this conversation.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>, what comes to mind when I mention oil company pleas to have the COVID-19 pandemic declared an act of God so they can get out of contracts?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>:</strong>  Not surprising that they would try to do that but seems unlikely to succeed.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a>, what comes to mind when I say General Motors siding with the Trump administration against California's auto fuel efficiency standards?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a>:</strong>  Good luck in the Supreme Court.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>, what comes to mind when I say cities that are banning cars on some streets and expanding sidewalks and bike lanes during the COVID-19 shut down?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>:</strong>  It’s really nice as a new cyclist myself here in Seattle.  I have a bum foot so I can’t do what I love to do which is running so I’ve been cycling places.  It’s been really nice not to have cars around.  But I think in the U.S. in particular, that seems a temporary phenomenon.  In Europe, I could see it lasting more permanently.</p> <p>---</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> You're listening to a Climate One conversation about the changing energy industry. Coming up, weaning ourselves off of fossil fuels - why crash diets don’t always work.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>: </strong>The way to sustainably lose weight is to gradually eat healthier food and fewer calories.  In the same vein the way to reduce emissions and get off fossil fuels is to gradually reduce them and increase renewables. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> That’s up next, when Climate One continues.</p> <p>---</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> This is Climate One. I’m Greg Dalton.  We’re talking about the future of the energy industry in a post-pandemic world. My guests are <a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a> of Generate Capital, <a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a> of the podcast Political Climate, <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>, energy reporter for Axios, and <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a> of the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University. </p> <p>Europe's green deal was launched shortly before the outbreak of the COVID pandemic.  It’s an ambitious plan to reshape agriculture, energy and transport, aiming for carbon neutrality by 2050.  In the face of global fiscal stress caused by the pandemic, is it realistic, or even possible, for Europe to move forward on this? <a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a> has been following their progress</p> <p><strong>PROGRAM PART 3</strong></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a></strong>:  I mean it’s a great question.  And it's always important to look outside the U.S. for what other folks are doing when it comes to these climate questions.  And I think what we've seen for the last 10 or so years is that in the U.S. we've polarized these questions politicized these questions the rest of the world has not.  China thinks about it as an industrial policy question and they think about it as a survival question.  And in Europe, you’ve seen continued interventions to make their economy greener and many of the incentives that they’re thinking about putting in place in order to boost their recovery are tied to the greenness of the activity that is being you know, incentivized. </p> <p>So I think what we have in Europe is a very different political environment.  And I don't worry about the fantasy as you may have described it for these environmental ministers.  I think execution is still always a challenge everywhere and having the right incentives and the right mix of policy support versus private sector activity is always a challenging question to confront.  But in Europe, climate change, climate mitigation, clean energy -- those are not political questions.  They are scientific questions.  They are economics questions.  They are about the long-term survival of humanity and a public health question.  And so I actually am very optimistic that the Europeans are going to continue to incentivize green ways of recovery.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a></strong>:  Can I just add.  I spoke to the EU ambassador to the United States in recent days and he underscored that they are committed.  So they are publicly being proactive in their communication saying this wasn’t just a passing thing.  We've actually integrated it as Scott mentioned into our recovery plan specifically grid digitization as well.  Like they’re getting specific and technical on how they want to see the stimulus work on the green front.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a>, you went to India recently and I follow this climate action tracker that comes out of the Potsdam Institute.  And India and Costa Rica are among the few companies that are on a trajectory for a 2°C postindustrial warming.  EU and Brazil are on a 3° track and China 4°and U.S. and Russia and Saudi Arabia even worse.  So India is a country that seems closer relatively close to its Paris commitments.  How is that gonna be affected by this crisis?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a></strong>:  Yeah, really good question.  So like the global renewable energy sector there are supply chain disruptions and then there's just social distancing and issues that developers have and how they’re gonna build projects.  So there’s definitely a delay in India's clean energy transition which is crucial if the globe wants to meet any of its climate goals.  India does rely just proportionally on coal today upwards of 70% maybe 90% of their power comes from coal.  So there will be a delay in the transition.  I went there thinking that it would be sort of a setback story at the end of the year the government had allowed foreign investment into the coal mines there which looked like an effort to shore up the industry.  Flash forward a couple months later obviously we’re also mid coronavirus there’s been no interest from foreign investors to invest in Indian coal mines.  So the government had to kind of say, okay, maybe this is not gonna be as easy to support the sector as we thought. Meanwhile renewable energy auction bids keep coming in lower and lower soft bank and others just one sum showing how the cost declines are going.</p> <p>And then you saw the Modi government actually declare renewable energy a must run resource it’s an essential service even now with coronavirus.  So development is continuing in that country.  And yeah we’ll see what happens in the future of coal but right now coal is being backed off the system as cheaper renewables are being prioritized on the grid in India.  So there’s historically I think a narrative around these countries moving slowly.  I do think having reported on it thinking there was a negative story it is actually true that India is moving quite fast and doing quite a good job even amid this coronavirus crisis and setting up itself policy wise for success on that front.  They might meet their 175 GW renewable energy target in 2022 a little late, but they are over 100 gigawatts in the pipeline now and they could get there.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a>, you wrote a piece recently about how Saudi Arabia could be a surprise winner from all this, emerge stronger economically, politically.  Why do you think that?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a></strong>:  Well, it comes back to the point I think Amy mentioned earlier on which is that boom could follow bust, I mean that’s the history of the oil industry.  So relative to a lot of other petro states, Nigeria, Iraq, Venezuela, they are in a better fiscal position to make it through a year or two of low oil prices.  And if in fact we do see demand recover quickly and we’ve heard some view on this so far that that may be the case, you see as I mentioned shale falling it will come back but not to the same extent.  You have a lot of oil supply been shutting around the world the estimates I’ve seen around 4 million barrels a day it might be semi-permanently damaged. It never comes back or it takes a lot of time and a lot of money to bring that supply back.  All the large companies, Chevron, Exxon, etc. have slashed their capital expenditure budgets.  So if supply lags demand then we could see a price run-up in the years ahead which could work to the fiscal advantage of some of the large oil producers.</p> <p>And then finally, it was kind of, you know, we mentioned a minute ago how President Trumps was so eager to see oil prices get some support.  And there were lots of ideas thrown out about how he could do that we could reconstitute the Texas Railroad Commission which last put quotas in place a half century ago or we can have import tariffs on oil.  In the end none of those things proved possible really the only tool we had at our disposal was reaching out to Riyadh and to Moscow as well and trying to pushing and cajoling and diplomacy to say can you try to do something about this.  And I think that’s an important reminder that no matter how much oil we produce at home and whether we’re importing or not we are still vulnerable to the global oil markets and have to turn to OPEC to do something if we don’t like oil prices being too high or too low.  And if we want to change that and develop some measure of independence we need to stop using so much oil in the first place which of course we have to do for climate as well.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  So the energy dominance hasn't worked and Jason do you think we’re gonna be back to be more import reliant in the future?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a></strong>:  I do.  I think we were just on the cusp of being a net oil exporter.  We import a lot and we export a lot but on a net basis it was about zero before this.  We’re gonna see oil production in the U.S. fall 7 million barrels a day.  Once the prices recover it will start growing again but I do think demand is probably gonna recover faster than supplies.  So we will still be a net importer for a while.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>, you’ve talked about how the bust leads to the future boom.  Hearing Jason talk about keeping oil in the ground shutting it in, climate activists might say, great, you know, that’s what people, Bill McKibben and others would say, we have to keep it in the ground that's where it should stay.  What’s wrong with that thinking?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a></strong>:  Yeah, it’s sort of ironic I guess to say that, you know, the situation the world that we’re in has gotten so crazy that the Trump administration’s potential positions are now Bill McKibben’s positions.  In the very narrow sense that, you know, there was some considerations in the administration to pay companies to keep their oil in the ground.  And it’s a little ironic for somebody who’s been covering both of these very polarizing sides of this debate for quite some time.  I think ultimately when it comes to the climate activism of this it’s missing the point. And the analogy I use is it’s like, well, if you want to lose weight why don’t you just stop eating food?  Like, well, of course we can’t just stop eating food like we need food for energy and to do things.  The way to sustainably lose weight is to gradually eat healthier food and fewer calories.  In the same vein the way to reduce emissions and get off fossil fuels is to gradually reduce them and increase renewables.</p> <p>And so this whole experience this whole tragic crisis of the coronavirus is just showing to me and going back to what Julia said about what this show is about the drastic drop in emission is just an extreme example of how hard it is to decarbonize the world which is something I know Jason has said as well.  So I think although this seems like a very brief moment for climate activists to cheer it’s not a sign of anything in the long term.  In fact, we’ve already seen oil companies’ stocks rise prices are going up in a really weird twisted way.  It’s almost like the coronavirus could actually as Jason said in a chat he and I had the other day, this could actually clear out some of the weaker links in the oil industry and make the oil industry stronger and therefore last longer after this.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  Do you think, you know, lot of the large oil companies, Shell and BP, others, say that they need policy to achieve their stated goals.  BP, Shell, now Total has said, we want to decarbonize or net zero various kind of future.  Are they putting their policy muscle where their mouth is on that? Are they lobbying, you know, only BP has left the American Petroleum Institute.  Are they advocating for the policy that they say they need to meet their own goals?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a></strong>:  Well, I actually don’t think any big oil companies left API.  I think BP and Shell and Total have left the American Fuel Petrochemical Makers.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  Right.  They stay in API.  Right, okay.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a></strong>:  Right.  So API is definitely likely going to keep all of its members from a climate perspective.  I don't see any of them defecting because of that.  I do think for now it’s mostly rhetoric and not that much lobbying action.  A lot of these companies including Exxon Mobil have actually put a million or two dollars into a lobbying campaign to get a carbon tax through Congress.  That whole campaign has really got put on the back burner given the COVID crisis.  I think what I'm gonna be looking for is in a crisis moment like what we’re in now will these oil companies choose to prioritize pushing action on climate change.  Because when you go to Congress when a company lobbies Congress, there’s always a litany of things that they need to talk to any member of Congress or the administration about.  So maybe it’s the trade battles maybe it’s ethanol wars.  And usually climate change, sure, BP and Shell and Exxon say they support a carbon tax, but do they really prioritize it when they go knocking on the doors?  And so far, the answer has been no.  And I think as we go through this crisis in recovery mode will they knock on doors to ask for a green recovery?  So far I haven’t seen it and that’s something that I'll be asking as well.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a></strong>:  A thing we also to note that there have been efforts as national ones happen about a carbon pricing scheme.  Oil companies have lobbied in other states against carbon pricing like in Washington State.  And we should also note that these proposals often include something else like reduction and the risk of future regulation and so it’s a tradeoff.  And so a business person is always gonna take a known risk of a market-based pricing scheme over some future regulation that they don't know what impact it’s gonna have on their business.  So if they could secure that win, they might be appealing.  And there’s a valid discussion to be had there but just want to note it’s not usually just a carbon pricing opportunity on its own that these all companies are supporting.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  Which leads to a question we have from YouTube, Collin Credel asked, “In the U.S. the response to COVID-19 has been largely led by governors.  What prospects are there for state leadership on climate change coming out of this crisis?”  <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a>, I see you nodding there.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a></strong>:  Yeah, Scott should comment on it too.  I mean I think there’s a huge opportunity there and we’re already seeing it.  We’re seeing it obviously in California, my own state of New York, states are stepping forward and putting in place in some states, not all, pretty strong measures to help support clean energy, set ambitious goals by which they need to decarbonize, we need a lot more of that.  The challenge is, you know, we mentioned a minute ago how important it is to coordinate at a multinational level because emissions can leak into other countries and it doesn't matter where a ton of CO2 comes from that’s even harder at the state level.  So I think there's some emissions that states and cities have control over.  I mean, Scott, we talked about in the video you showed, you know, reducing emissions in buildings.  I think it’s great if people try to take the leadership to do that, but you need policy to do that.  You need building standards, you need a price on carbon you need something else.  So sometimes states and cities are a good place to do that but there are a lot of things that really need federal if not global coordinated action to address.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a>.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a></strong>:  Yeah, well, I agree that global coordination is really the only way we’re gonna get the scale of the solution to meet the scale of the problem.  I don’t think there's anything particularly unique about the COVID induced environment about how states step up and lead especially when it comes to energy policy.  We have seen for the last 15 years states stepping up and leading and their policies driving much more behavior change investment change and decarbonization than anything at the federal level.  And that continues to be the case today it will be likely the case post COVID, you know, energy, especially from an electricity standpoint is regulated at a local level, you know, transportation fuel is a different story.  Building standards, both, right, we saw California take a very progressive building standard to all new buildings that need to be now net zero and net zero carbon starting January 1st of this year.  That’s far and away more aggressive than anything we ever heard about even the Obama administration trying to do at the federal level.  So it's a mix of local, state, federal and international policies that will help us move forward.  But it's also important to remember that the fundamental economics of the decarbonized stuff is increasingly attractive.  It is already better in many cases, than the carbonized stuff.  And the bigger challenge which I think we all haven't really addressed but we’re talking about in certain ways is the stock, the actual capital stock of the world, and the stock of carbon already in the atmosphere.  Those are the issues.  It's not really what we do in 2021 with new energy capacity bills or new regulations on farming or food production or any of that.  It's what do we do with all the stuff that’s already here, both in the atmosphere and in the built environment and infrastructure.  That’s much harder to solve and much bigger problem for climate change.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a></strong>:  But if I could just say and tell me if you agree, Scott.  It is true that clean energy wins economically in the power sector.  And electricity is about 20% of global final energy demand.  So there's a lot of stuff beyond electricity and we can electrify some of that, not gonna electrify all of it because there are things that are hard to electrify.  And so we’re gonna need a pretty broad set of solutions which might include hydrogen, carbon capture, direct air capture various other things to try to capture all the rest.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a></strong>:  And what McKinsey actually notes I think in their latest analysis that EV sales this year I believe will be down 43% because of these disruptions to supply chains and just consumer appetite, etc. There will be a hit to that segment so there will be even a building back up to the trajectory that these technologies had before.  And then there's another thing I love that I think Amy wrote was about you have your pasta and your salad on the side and so far we’ve been in this additive situation, we’re just adding salad.  We haven’t really taken away our pasta portion yet.  So I think that’s just an awesome way of framing it.  So hat tip to you, Amy, I’ve had to borrow that a few times.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a></strong>:  Well, that’s what I do when I try to be healthy.  I’m like I’m just gonna add a salad on top of this big pile of pasta and then I’m gonna be healthier.  It’s like, well, not really.  The purpose is to lose weight or to transition I need to take off a quarter of the pasta and add, you know, half a salad.</p> <p>---</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> You’ve been listening to Climate One. We’ve been talking about the future of energy, from fossil fuels to renewables. I’m Greg Dalton. Joining me from their homes today were <a href="/people/amy-harder" hreflang="und">Amy Harder</a>, Energy Reporter for Axios, <a href="/people/jason-bordoff" hreflang="und">Jason Bordoff</a>, Founding Director of the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University, <a href="/people/scott-jacobs" hreflang="und">Scott Jacobs</a>, CEO and Co-founder of Generate Capital, and <a href="/people/julia-pyper" hreflang="und">Julia Pyper</a>, the host and producer of the Political Climate Podcast. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  To hear more Climate One conversations, subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and other major platforms. Please help us get people talking more about climate by giving us a rating or review. It really does help. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> Kelli Pennington directs our audience engagement. Tyler Reed is our producer. Sara-Katherine Coxon is the strategy and content manager. Steve Fox is director of advancement. Anny Celsi edited the program. Our audio team is Mark Kirchner, Arnav Gupta, and Andrew Stelzer. Dr. Gloria Duffy is CEO of The Commonwealth Club of California, where our program originates. I’m Greg Dalton. </p> <p> </p> </div> <div class="cards cards_sideswipe small_square"> <div class="container sideswipe"><div class="col"><a href="/playlist/covid-19-and-climate"><article role="article" class="node node--type-playlist node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="100011"> <figure> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/2023-01/%21COVID19%20image%20C1.jpg?itok=-EgciBVG 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/2023-01/%21COVID19%20image%20C1.jpg?itok=cKyQgMOX 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="2500" height="2500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/2023-01/%21COVID19%20image%20C1.jpg?itok=-EgciBVG" alt="Image of medical professional" alt="Image of medical professional" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <h1>COVID-19 and Climate</h1> <div class="count">5 Episodes</div> </article></a> </div><div class="col empty"></div> </div> </div> <div class="field-related-podcasts field--label-hidden field__items"> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="16690"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/cheap-gasoline" data-url="http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20150315_Cheap_Gasoline.mp3" data-node="16690" data-title="Cheap Gasoline" data-image="">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/event/iStock_000004361199Large%20copy.jpg?itok=vaFZN25F 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/event/iStock_000004361199Large%20copy.jpg?itok=zenPTFHJ 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="700" height="467" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/event/iStock_000004361199Large%20copy.jpg?itok=vaFZN25F" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/cheap-gasoline">Cheap Gasoline</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">February 27, 2015</div> </span> Gas prices are plunging, and Americans can get back on the road again. What are the economic, geopolitical and environmental consequences of cheap… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="16690" data-title="Cheap Gasoline" data-url="http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20150315_Cheap_Gasoline.mp3" data-image="/files/images/event/iStock_000004361199Large%20copy.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Cheap Gasoline.mp3" href="/api/audio/16690"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/16690"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100128"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-image="/files/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=N4bwtMoT 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=fzc4plXe 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=N4bwtMoT" alt="Bikers navigate a city street next to a bus" alt="Bikers navigate a city street next to a bus" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city">Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">August 11, 2023</div> </span> Can you imagine if everything you needed in your everyday life was just a walk or bike ride away? That’s the goal of the 15-minute City, a new name… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City.mp3" href="/api/audio/100128"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100128"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100110"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/green-power-red-states" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC3624284193.mp3" data-node="100110" data-title="Green Energy / Red States" data-image="/files/images/2023-07/Podpage_0.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-07/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=rKAvlM5A 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-07/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=IE0yy357 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-07/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=rKAvlM5A" alt="A stylized graphic of the U.S. Captiol painted red and blue" alt="A stylized graphic of the U.S. Captiol painted red and blue" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/green-power-red-states">Green Energy / Red States</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">July 14, 2023</div> </span> Billions of dollars from the Inflation Reduction Act have started flowing into renewable energy projects and manufacturing. That’s bringing jobs and… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100110" data-title="Green Energy / Red States" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC3624284193.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-07/Podpage_0.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Green Energy / Red States.mp3" href="/api/audio/100110"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100110"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="25814"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/rebuilding-climate-successful-city-strategies" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC5913416983.mp3" data-node="25814" data-title="Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod webpage -Rebuilding.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg?itok=U8Jk8mxj 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg?itok=MS3EvyYh 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1200" height="1200" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg?itok=U8Jk8mxj" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/rebuilding-climate-successful-city-strategies">Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">June 24, 2022</div> </span> 83% of people in the United States live in urban areas. And these days that’s where important climate progress is happening. Cities all over the… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"> <div class="field__item"><a href="/category/searching-solutions" hreflang="en">Searching for Solutions</a></div> </div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="25814" data-title="Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC5913416983.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies.mp3" href="/api/audio/25814"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/25814"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24907"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/cities-future-where-life-meets-design" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20190712_cl1_Cities_for_the_Future_PODCAST.mp3" data-node="24907" data-title="Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design" data-image="/files/images/media/PRX Life Meets Design.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=5yJolTin 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=PW1reF4A 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1600" height="1600" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=5yJolTin" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/cities-future-where-life-meets-design">Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">July 12, 2019</div> </span> When Ridley Scott envisioned the dystopian Los Angeles of 2019 in “Blade Runner,” he probably didn’t think about how much energy would be needed to… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24907" data-title="Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20190712_cl1_Cities_for_the_Future_PODCAST.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/PRX%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Cities for the Future: Where Life Meets Design.mp3" href="/api/audio/24907"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/24907"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="24454"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/new-wheels-town" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20180715_cl1_NewWheelsInTown.mp3" data-node="24454" data-title="New Wheels in Town" data-image="/files/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg?itok=dB6l5VXj 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg?itok=AzzdOozk 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1000" height="1215" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/C1_NewWheels_11.jpg?itok=dB6l5VXj" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/new-wheels-town">New Wheels in Town</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">June 20, 2018</div> </span> Electric scooters, skateboards and bicycles are popping up all over in cities all over the country. 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Designing and operating a home that generates as much power as it uses is rapidly becoming a reality… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="24246" data-title="Net Zero Living" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20180107_cl1_NetZeroLiving.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/Net%20Zero%201800px.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Net Zero Living.mp3" href="/api/audio/24246"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/24246"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> </div> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg?itok=eBhMkjmL 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg?itok=NPqpoXLG 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="2500" height="2500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg?itok=eBhMkjmL" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/covid-19-and-climate-future-energy" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20200522_cl1_Future_of_Energy_PODCAST.mp3" data-node="25258" data-title=" COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod-COVID Energy.jpg">Play</a> Thu, 21 May 2020 23:09:00 +0000 Otto Pilot 25258 at https://www.climateone.org Zero-Emission Cities https://www.climateone.org/audio/zero-emission-cities Zero-Emission Cities<span class="field field--name-uid field--type-entity-reference field--label-hidden"><span>Otto Pilot</span></span> <span class="field field--name-created field--type-created field--label-hidden">Thu, 05/07/2020 - 3:42 pm</span> <div class="field__item">&nbsp;</div> <div class="field__item"><p dir="ltr">Can we solve the climate crisis by reimagining our cities? </p> <p dir="ltr">Climate activists have long envisioned the zero-carbon cities of the future. Now, with COVID-19 shutting down congested urban areas, city dwellers from Los Angeles to New Delhi are getting a rare taste of clean air and blue skies. But the view is also more clear of things more painful to see - social inequalities that have existed for generations.</p> <p dir="ltr">“This particular crisis is showing us that how vulnerable our poor communities are,” says Ani Dasgupta of the World Resources Institute.  “And whatever we do in the future, the building resilience, economic and social resilience, should be core strategy for anyone of us who are trying to rebuild cities from then on.”</p> <p dir="ltr">Eva Gladek, founder of the consulting firm Metabolic, agrees. “This is an opportunity to think about what kind of systems do we actually want, what kind of future do we envision for our cities and for our economy,” she says. “And how do we actually try to address multiple challenges at once when looking toward that future.”</p> <p dir="ltr">Climate One convened experts in sustainability and urban planning from three far-flung cities – Los Angeles, Washington D.C. and Amsterdam – to explore the role of cities around the world in building a just and sustainable future for all their citizens. </p> <p dir="ltr">And as Dasgupta points out, clear skies are only part of the picture.</p> <p dir="ltr">“What we’re looking for is not just a low carbon city or low carbon world,” he notes. “We’re looking for a successful city.  </p> <p dir="ltr">“A successful city has a place where people have jobs, people can create welfare for the families and do what they need to do.  It is a thriving place that has high quality of life.” </p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Additional Interview:</strong><br />Lubna Ahmed, Director of Environmental Health, WE ACT for Environmental Justice</p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>This program is generously underwritten by ClimateWorks Foundation and was recorded online on April 20, 2020.</strong></p> <p dir="ltr"><strong>Related Links:</strong><br /><a href="https://www.wri.org/">World Resources Institute</a><br /><a href="https://www.c40.org/about">C40 Cities</a><br /><a href="https://www.metabolic.nl/">Metabolic</a><br /><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/24/pandemic-could-be-call-action-climate-change/">The pandemic could be a call to action on climate change (Washington Post</a>)<br /><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/climate/air-pollution-coronavirus-covid.html">New research links air pollution to higher coronavirus death rates (NY Times)</a></p> </div> <div class="cards cards_sideswipe small_square"> <div class="container title"> <h2>Guests</h2> </div> <div class="container sideswipe"><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="25211"> <figure> <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-03/Ani%20Dasgupta%20Headshot%202%20%282%29.jpg?itok=_G0rda-I 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-03/Ani%20Dasgupta%20Headshot%202%20%282%29.jpg?itok=fqT95TBD 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1324" height="1324" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-03/Ani%20Dasgupta%20Headshot%202%20%282%29.jpg?itok=_G0rda-I" alt="Ani Dasgupta" alt="Ani Dasgupta" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta">Ani Dasgupta</a></h1> <div class="title">President and CEO, World Resources Institute</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="25209"> <figure> <a href="/people/eva-gladek"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Gladek.png?itok=-eDSwJuE 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/person/Gladek.png?itok=s7dZZAKZ 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="355" height="348" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Gladek.png?itok=-eDSwJuE" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/eva-gladek">Eva Gladek</a></h1> <div class="title">Founder and CEO, Metabolic</div> </article> </div><div class="col"><article role="article" class="node node--type-person node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="15690"> <figure> <a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor"> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Oconnor.png?itok=ERuhGA-Q 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/person/Oconnor.png?itok=q3QJt_IH 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="375" height="562" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/person/Oconnor.png?itok=ERuhGA-Q" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </a> </figure> <h1><a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor">Lauren Faber O&#039;Connor</a></h1> <div class="title">Chief Sustainability Officer, Office of Mayor Eric Garcetti, City of Los Angeles</div> </article> </div><div class="col empty"></div> </div> </div><h1 class="node__title">Zero-Emission Cities</h1> <div class="field__item"><time datetime="2020-05-08T12:00:00Z" class="datetime">05/08/2020</time> </div> <div class="share-this"> <div><a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A//www.climateone.org/audio/zero-emission-cities&amp;text=Zero-Emission%20Cities" target="_blank"><svg version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" x="0px" y="0px" viewBox="0 0 248 204"><path fill="#ffffff" class="st0" d="M221.95,51.29c0.15,2.17,0.15,4.34,0.15,6.53c0,66.73-50.8,143.69-143.69,143.69v-0.04 C50.97,201.51,24.1,193.65,1,178.83c3.99,0.48,8,0.72,12.02,0.73c22.74,0.02,44.83-7.61,62.72-21.66 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href="mailto:?subject=Zero-Emission%20Cities&amp;body=https%3A//www.climateone.org/audio/zero-emission-cities"><svg width="33" height="29" viewBox="0 0 33 29" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><g clip-path="url(#clip0_479_3577)"><path d="M0.740352 28.2402H31.8494C32.046 28.2402 32.2347 28.1629 32.3738 28.0249C32.5129 27.887 32.5909 27.6999 32.5909 27.5049V11.1681C32.5909 10.9569 32.4995 10.7563 32.34 10.6166L26.7476 5.72682V0.975544C26.7476 0.78054 26.6696 0.593477 26.5305 0.455533C26.3913 0.317589 26.2027 0.240234 26.006 0.240234H6.58575C6.38909 0.240234 6.20045 0.317589 6.06133 0.455533C5.92222 0.593477 5.84421 0.78054 5.84421 0.975544V5.65682L0.24797 10.6202C0.0904676 10.7596 0 10.959 0 11.1681V27.5049C0 27.6999 0.0780098 27.887 0.217122 28.0249C0.356235 28.1629 0.544882 28.2402 0.741538 28.2402H0.740352ZM11.8201 20.9607L1.48189 26.3643V12.7576L11.8201 20.9607ZM31.1063 26.3617L20.7936 20.9404L31.1063 12.7579V26.3617ZM19.5309 21.9416L28.7147 26.7696H3.88774L13.084 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10.8705C10.3648 11.0979 10.6098 11.2382 10.8747 11.2382Z" fill="black"/><path d="M10.8747 15.4921H21.713C21.9779 15.4921 22.2229 15.3521 22.3552 15.1244C22.4875 14.8971 22.4875 14.6168 22.3552 14.3891C22.2229 14.1618 21.9779 14.0215 21.713 14.0215H10.8747C10.6098 14.0215 10.3648 14.1618 10.2325 14.3891C10.1002 14.6168 10.1002 14.8971 10.2325 15.1244C10.3648 15.3521 10.6098 15.4921 10.8747 15.4921Z" fill="black"/></g><defs><clipPath id="clip0_479_3577"><rect width="32.5909" height="28" fill="white" transform="translate(0 0.240234)"/></clipPath></defs></svg></a></div> </div> <div class="field__item"><p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: This is Climate One. I’m Greg Dalton. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: Climate activists have long envisioned the zero-carbon cities of the future. Now, with COVID-19 shutting down congested urban areas, city dwellers from Los Angeles to New Delhi are getting a rare taste of clean air and blue skies. But the view is also more clear of things more painful to see - social inequalities that have existed for generations.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>: </strong>This particular crisis is showing us that how vulnerable our poor communities are.  And whatever we do in the future the building resilience, economic and social resilience, should be core strategy for anyone of us who are trying to rebuild cities from then on. </p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>:  </strong>This is an opportunity to think about what kind of systems do we actually want, what kind of future do we envision for our cities and for our economy.  And how do we actually try to address multiple challenges at once when looking toward that future. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: The path toward zero-carbon cities. Up next on Climate One.</p> <p>---</p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: This is Climate One. Are zero-emission cities in our future? Climate One conversations feature oil companies and environmentalists, Republicans and Democrats, the exciting and the scary aspects of the climate challenge. I’m Greg Dalton.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a>:</strong>  If the COVID-19 crisis is showing us anything it is showing us that we are all a completely interconnected society where this pandemic is hurting everybody.  And climate change is hurting and will continue to hurt everybody. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: It’s been said many times -- we’re all in this together. But as the current health crisis so dramatically reveals, not all of our communities have been impacted equally. Today, we explore the role of cities around the world in building a just and sustainable future for all their citizens. And clear skies are only part of the picture</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a></strong>: What we’re looking for is not just a low carbon city or low carbon world.  We’re looking for a successful city.  A successful city has a place where people have jobs, people can create welfare for the families and do what they need to do.  It is a thriving place that has high quality of life.  </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: My guests today are three experts leading the charge toward creating that thriving city of the future. <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a> is Global Director of the Ross Center for Sustainable Cities at the World Resources Institute. Lauren Faber O’Connor is Chief Sustainability Officer for the City of Los Angeles under Mayor Eric Garcetti. And <a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a> is founder and CEO of Metabolic, a consulting firm based in Amsterdam that is working towards a sustainable economy.  </p> <p>All three are joining me remotely today to talk about building and maintaining zero-carbon cities. This program is generously underwritten by the ClimateWorks Foundation, which has supported Climate One since I created it more than a decade ago.</p> <p>The most recent report by the IPCC, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, says that to reach our climate goals, every city in the world must be at zero carbon emissions by 2050. Where do we stand right now? <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a> gives us the global view.</p> <p><strong>PROGRAM PART 1</strong></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a></strong>:  As you know, there’s no city today in the world that is carbon neutral or zero carbon.  There will be some hopefully soon and those will be in countries where the energy supply is more green than others, so people talk about Copenhagen for example.  We did the study last year looking at is it possible to get to zero carbon in 2050?  And our conclusion from that work is it is possible even with the given technologies that is there today.  And that initiative has to be focused on the big sectors in cities that are the big carbon emitters.  For example buildings, which is the biggest one, transportation, waste, materials that’s used.  But what also came across clearly, Greg, is not only these things needs to be zero carbon but the energy used in the cities needs to be green which is a critical factor that cities often don’t control.  So cities need to work with their regions to get to a zero carbon outcome.  But the signs at least and our work shows that it is absolutely possible.  But at the same time we actually have to kind of use, live and manage cities differently to get there.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>, how do you look at cities holistically trying to get to zero emissions?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a></strong>:  Well, I think Ani already covered a lot of the kind of points that you would take into account in a holistic perspective.  But one of the things that we always emphasize is this whole systems approach.  And the fact is that something that’s often overlooked in looking at moving to zero emissions for cities is consumption based impacts.  So basically all the materials that cities are consuming, all the food that people are eating, all the materials that are coming into produce all the buildings.  These actually have embodied carbon emissions that are very significant.  And we recently finished a study for the city of Boulder, Colorado where we actually calculated how much of these emissions, how much of the total emissions that you can attribute to Boulder are in this kind of consumed material and it's over 50%.  So it’s very significant.  </p> <p>So if you actually want to move to being a zero emissions city you have to go with indeed your own buildings, how you design your infrastructure, your urban areas.  All of those kinds of things that have to do with what’s going on in the city itself but also what you’re consuming the energy and the materials.  </p> <p>When it comes to really looking at it from this holistic perspective, you always have to look at the drivers of consumption.  So it's very easy to think okay to decarbonize the mobility system let’s just put in a bunch of electric cars.  But that can actually create knock-on effects where we’re demanding much more energy and resource intensive materials that we can’t recycle very readily yet.  When actually we need to look at how do we design our urban fabric in such a way that we don't need to drive that we actually that it's very easy to walk because neighborhoods are porous because we have almost everything that we need in our close proximity.  So these are kinds of systemic ways of thinking about cities and moving to zero carbon.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a>, people think of Los Angeles obviously they think of cars.  Is that fair that cities often undercount the materials and impact kind of the consumption part because what I hear about cities is a lot about buildings, cars than maybe food waste.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a></strong>:  We’re learning a lot about consumption based emissions actually.  And I commend all of you, if you are interested in consumption based emissions.  C40, which you mentioned, the mayor is now chair of which is a coalition and network of 96 megacities of the world.  And they are really raising the bar together we are raising the bar what it means to uphold the Paris climate agreement and how we lead on climate action.  But one of the things that because we’re learning a lot more about embodied carbon and consumption based emission.  C40 actually recently put out a report last year on consumption based emission looking at some of the huge drivers of emissions based on individual behavior.  And essentially it looks at all 96 cities and shows that if we can address our consumption emission that’s about 10% of global emissions right there.  It’s supposed to be an empowering idea though because we always are looking for opportunities to as individuals be part of the solution. </p> <p>And so when you look at your food consumption when you look at your air travel when you look at the way you get around the city or elsewhere.  Those are real things you have in your power to make a difference.  But just in terms of, you know, looking at things piecemeal as a city.  In L.A. we have to look at things as more of a holistic interconnected woven fabric across our emissions because a city like Los Angeles we own and operate our own municipal utility.  We own and operate the port of Los Angeles together with Long Beach as the largest port complex of the nation and beyond.  And we own and operate our own airport, LAX, the busiest airport.  And so we have to look at as we're moving toward more renewable energy as we’re electrifying our transport.  We then take on more of that responsibility through our municipal utility as we’re moving toward electrifying our buildings.  We’re taking on that responsibility again through our utility, making sure that we are increasing our efficiencies but then we’re not overburdening the grid.  But really have the power in our own hands as a city we’re structured in L.A. to have huge, huge impact.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>, you know, we talk about lowering consumption.  Certainly that’s happening now as people are not shopping, etc.  But isn’t our economy tied to us consumption we’re trapped in this system that’s driven by consumption.  And we're hearing well we need to consume less, but it isn’t that sort of prescription for tanking the economy?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a></strong>:  Well, there’s a number of things to unpack here.  So, consumption based emissions don't necessarily have to do with personal consumption when you're looking at the city context.  It has to do with all the kind of materials that’s coming in to support the infrastructure, etc.  So that's actually a much larger piece.  And a lot of that, so you can get the same amount of service and value out of the economy with many fewer materials if you manage to actually decouple materials from service delivery.  So there's through smart design through moving to a circular economy.  We can actually provide the same amount of consumption in terms of value or goods or experiences delivered with many fewer resources.  So it's really that kind of that critical idea around how do we actually manage to do this decoupling.  And I mean of course you get into a lot more philosophical questions too.  How much do we really need to consume? What is the point of consuming all of the stuff?  We want to consume to the level where we’re satisfied we have the experiences that we want where we’re not wanting for anything.  But there's a level at which it just becomes empty beyond that as well. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  Right.  And we’ve got right now a lot of low income people that aren’t perhaps consuming enough they don't have the level of comfort or security that we would be expecting that they would like to have. </p> <p> A recent study from Harvard analyzed air quality and COVID related deaths in every county in the United States.  They found that even a small increase in long-term exposure to fine pollutants or particulate matter is associated with a 15% increase in the COVID-19 death rate.  Other words, the more polluted your area is, the more likely you are to die from COVID-19 which attacks the lungs.  Those study results were no surprise to Lubna Ahmed, director of Environmental Health at WE ACT for Environmental Justice, a community organizing group in New York City. </p> <p><strong>ROLL-IN:</strong></p> <p>Lubna Ahmed, Director of Environmental Health, WE ACT for Environmental Justice</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  That wasLubna Ahmed, director of Environmental Health at WE ACT for Environmental Justice in New York City. <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>, I’d like to hear from you responding to that from Lubna talking about this kind of connection between -- the earth is healing itself and perhaps that’s a longer term thing but there’s also this inequity and inclusion piece that she mentioned.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a></strong>:  Two things are striking to me about what’s happening around the world.  The fallout every country have poor people are much more affected.  Not only from the medical part of the crisis but the ensuing economic prices that still in play in some country and will happen for months everywhere.  Everywhere you see if you look at, you know, New York, if you look at India what's just happened in a lockdown.  It’s just striking how vulnerabilities are showing up.  Lot of people lot of us included in this call been talking about that we've been building economies and societies that are kind of geared towards growth and not towards long-term resilience, suddenly we see it.  One crisis takes place and everything one after how is social crisis and medical crisis so quickly becomes economic crisis and so quickly becomes a physical crisis of public transport system not working.  </p> <p>I think that point of how vulnerable our poor society is and how much we have to work towards resilience is so critical.  We argued and always argue that what we’re looking for is not just a climate low carbon city or low carbon world.  We’re looking for a successful city.  A successful city has a place where people have jobs, people can create welfare for the families and do what they need to do.  It is a thriving place that has high quality of life.  We just discussed about whether we need, you know, how much should we consume and we have argued that we should talk about what are the quality of life we want rather than what we need to consume. </p> <p>And finally, can you do these two things while actually not producing that much carbon, reducing carbon footprint.  That is a strategy for forming a successful city.  Lauren talks about L.A.’s strategy is very much good towards these three outcomes.  The question is, I think for all of us these clear skies that the Harvard study you talked about, actually provide us a kind of a shocking but good experiment.  That what will happen if there were no cars spewing carbon or factories that citizens across the world are able to witness.  What would it be like to live in cities that are safer, quieter, cleaner and we can breathe air.  And I hope that this particular outcome though we didn't plan it, actually can help us use a political momentum towards these changes because we know that these changes are possible to get there.  But just like COVID we all need to work together and it’s not just government policies.  So this is behavior, our choices of how we use, our choices of not using cars and using public transport.  These together gets to an outcome that we are seeing.  </p> <p>But I just want to finish by I can’t stress enough how much this particular crisis showing us that how vulnerable our poor communities are.  And whatever we do in the future the building resilience, economic and social resilience should be core strategy for anyone of us who are trying to rebuild cities from then on. </p> <p>---</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: You’re listening to a Climate One conversation about designing successful cities for everyone. Coming up, improving our cities by changing our diet.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a></strong>:One of the biggest things cities could do actually for carbon per city is all of us could do, is to eat less beef.  That single thing could actually dramatically shift how much acreage is needed to grow soybean and other crops to feed animal stock.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: That’s up next, when Climate One continues.</p> <p>---</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>:  This is Climate One. I’m Greg Dalton, and we’re talking about creating carbon-free, sustainable, equitable cities. I’m coming to you from my home in the Bay Area, and my three guests are beaming in from their homes. Lauren Faber O’Connor is head of sustainability for the City of Los Angeles, <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a> is with the World Resources Institute in Washington, D.C.</p> <p><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a> joins us from Amsterdam, where she leads the consulting firm Metabolic. I asked her how the social safety net in the Netherlands is responding to the current health crisis compared to here in the States</p> <p><strong>PROGRAM PART 2</strong></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a></strong>:  My general impression is that it’s much better here.  So I'm originally from the United States my parents are right outside of New York City right now.  And I’ve been hearing from them and from a lot of my friends back home what kind of dire situations people are facing.  Not being able to get through on the phone to the unemployment office.  Having just complete lack of security about rent and all sorts of expenses.  I started my company here in the Netherlands almost 8 years ago.  And right when the crisis here started the government immediately said that if any small business owner was not able to pay salaries 90% of those salaries will be covered indefinitely throughout the crisis.  There's been a freeze on evictions like no one can be evicted for not being able to pay rent.  All sorts of systems have been put in place.  There's a lot of security.  And immediately we were also told that we can defer all of our taxes throughout this entire period to basically assist in any kind of issues. And these aren’t even loans these are basically grants and, you know, interest-free kind of tax deferrals, etc.  </p> <p>I can't speak for the entire of Europe I know that the situation in the Southern European countries is far more dire and of course there’s a lot of conflict between the European nations about how to resolve some of these issues.  There's obviously wealth disparities here.  But all of this points to this question of resilience.  And one of the things that I really think this whole crisis has laid bare are the cracks in the system that we’ve built.  The inadequacies of certain things and also the fact that inequality ultimately is a risk to everyone because as you have this extreme disparity in distribution of wealth you create huge swaths of the population that are extremely close to the poverty line and are basically not able to survive any kind of significant period during a crisis.  And that starts to break down or risk breaking down the entire functioning of the economic system even for those who are wealthy and hiding out somewhere.  So and that's just one of the many things that this has revealed that has been a tragic but also very illuminating experiment.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a>.  Governor Eric Garcetti of Los Angeles gave his state of the city address.  It was quite dark.  He said the city is under attack.  The fiscal situation is the worst it's ever been.  How is that gonna affect Los Angeles' ability to get to net zero and to invest in green infrastructure.  He announced an ambitious Green New Deal earlier this year.  How much of that is risk now given the current fiscal environment?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a></strong>:  Well, the current fiscal environment is risking everything.  It’s even risking our jobs, you know, the large proportion of the city family including myself will be taking a furlough, 26 furloughed days in the coming fiscal year.  But those are things we have to do and we still count ourselves lucky to have jobs where we see such extreme, you know, inequity not just pre-existing but now being created and divided even further.  And it’s interesting to hear what Eva was saying what’s been going on in the Netherlands because a lot of those things that I guess in Europe are seeing as ways to keep people from, you know, being on the brink are things that the mayor instituted immediately upon the crisis.  Instituted immediately an eviction prohibition for both residential and commercial as well as the furlough of taxes the furlough of rent and housing rent control apartments and homes.  And has been calling on the federal government for a rent-freeze as well which is not in our authority to be able to do, I know you heard him say that yesterday in the state of the city as well.  All of these things he recognizes are really ways to protect people and in the future when we build back we don’t wanna necessarily build back to the normal that existed predating the pandemic which was sustaining these types of and growing these types of inequities.  But really building back to a new normal that celebrates our diversity and brings us together and lifts people up.  Whether that’s through access to housing whether that’s through access to college.  All of these things that really will make the difference between who is disproportionally impacted by dirty air or unclean water, again, which makes this susceptible to these types of pandemic. </p> <p>To see the improvement in our air-quality well beyond anything that I’ve seen in my lifetime some of the cleanest air in the world in Los Angeles right now is an inspiring look at what can be and how quickly the earth can heal itself.  It really is exciting but not at the cost of a pandemic, not at the cost of people’s health, not at the cost of people’s livelihoods.  The message to take away cannot be that the only way to reach this kind of regenerative planet is through stopping all activity across the world that’s not the take home.  </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>, one thing that's being, some things that are being rethunk, reconsidered globalization is being reconsidered right now, this kind of far-flung fragile supply chains.  So from where you sit how do you see globalization being reconsidered as countries talk about kind of bringing production, bringing things closer home, there’s sort of our country first mentality that could rise out of this.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a></strong>:  I think two opposing thoughts are racing through all of our minds during this period.  One is, I think all of us predict that we will see lot of discussion of making supply chains much more resilient, closer to the source those where it’s consumed so that we are not dependent on these disruptions or not affected by the disruption of supply chains.  Which in a kind of a scientific way or in a kind of person like me who’s interested in low carbon is a good thing.  Actually this will reduce carbon footprint of moving things around it might lead to good thing.  But we also fear and I feel very much that this is the good thing part will be also married with an idea of exclusion and closing down boundaries and lack of globalization or global partnerships which will not be good.  </p> <p>As we can see right now from what's happening with the pandemic was to solve this kind of problem and this is not the last global crisis we will have. We already know that what is happening already now will happen from the climate crisis.  It is across the world actually communities across the world are facing climate related outcome already.  There are more heat related death in India last year than any before. </p> <p>So these are things are happening we just don’t read about it.  And so I think these opposing forces, Greg, I don't know how will it pan out.  Something good might come out of building more resilient, more connected, much more circular economy as Eva was talking about that has materials have less carbon footprint as they were consumed.  But I think closing down borders and being nationalistic, I don't think that with the work I do is gonna be good.  The best thing we do in our organization we actually learn work very close with C40 is actually how cities learn from each other across the world.  That’s the fastest way people learn.  So I wish I could tell you exactly how this will pan out but this two thoughts are actually going through I think everyone’s mind including there are work a lot about how will global cooperation increase because of this or decrease because of this.  And we’re hoping it’s the former.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>, your thoughts on that.  And you think that we got to be careful about not designing future of cities for one moment or one crisis; as bad as COVID is, we have to think beyond COVID and not kind of overreact to this current crisis and kind of design cities with this pandemic in mind.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a></strong>:  Yeah, absolutely.  I mean, I think, there's a tendency now to in our previous discussion, Greg, we talked about how people might be scared now to get on public transit because there is now this kind of risk of exposure to this pathogen.  And that we have been making a lot of progress on moving towards reusable cups and materials in the kind of retail sector.  And now that's also potentially going to be less interesting.  I do think that these are not -- designing the system to respond to these particular concerns is not the right thing to do.  This is an opportunity to think about what kind of systems do we actually want, what kind of future do we envision for our cities and for our economy.  And how do we actually try to address multiple challenges at once when looking toward that future.  And then actually use this crisis as an opportunity to put money in resources into that direction to invest in infrastructure that is let’s say future proof to the extent that that’s possible against multiple different types of problems.  So instead of thinking okay well we need to revive this existing public transit system that has all sorts of issues with it. What kind of public transit system can we envision in the future that addresses both health and mobility concerns and decarbonization and also some other things at the same time.  And also looking at what does that mean for urban design. </p> <p>Related to the kind of globalization versus kind of closing out of borders.  I also think that there are multiple ways to look at that question.  We know for a fact that we have kind of inadequately dealt with the resilience of our global supply chains because they are too concentrated.  They're not designed for the kind of optimal transport of resources.  But there’s lots of ways to deal with that that don't involve necessarily shutting down borders.  We can also create local resilience resource flows and economies paired with a certain longer further distance more global chains, etc.  So I really think it all has to do with us using this as an opportunity to envision the kind of future that we want to create and then putting resources toward building that future and using it as a kind of leapfrog moment to also address some of these crisis issues.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a>, what are some things now that are possible now that were kind of unimaginable before.  We’re in this moment where things, you know, cities are shutting down streets because there’s not much car traffic and kind of pedestrians are taking over streets.  What are some things possible now that we're not really imaginable pre-crisis?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a></strong>:  Well, there’s a number of things that we’re learning and that we’re taking on that may not have been possible before certainly not in such a swift time frame. And a lot of that comes from what Ani was talking about is the collaboration and learning from other cities.  It’s been incredible to see the kind of engagement that our C40 cities and our cities around the country around the state around the country have been having on a regular basis.  Our mayors talking to each other to talk about lessons learned, to ask each other questions on how we dealt with one thing or another.  And to share some of the things that we’ve been doing to improve people’s lives, to improve or alleviate the situation.  I remember hearing just last week about one city talking about helping and rebating the sale of electric bikes.  We’re looking at -- the mayor announced just a week ago a new program called adapt.  Which is moving our street sweeping and our paving from residential areas to higher traffic corridors now that it’s been really difficult to close down, really difficult to do any work in a public right of way.  But now we’re able to accelerate that action which really will help people as well. </p> <p>First thing that in accelerating timeline for public transit, we’re looking at bus lanes and bike lanes that have been hard to take the time to put in as well.  These are major opportunities. Teleworking itself is also something that has not been widely adapted in a lot of industries, certainly not in a public sector.  And now we’re seeing so much more opportunity where people would maybe not employed in a public sector but in private sector fly to a meeting, huge carbon footprint there.  And now they’re seeing that that client relationship can still thrive without that kind of face to face if it’s not completely necessary.  So we’re seeing a lot of things even around permitting streamlining to get businesses up and running quicker.  To what can we do to increase our housing construction this is only showing how much we continue to direly need more housing.  But in terms of the supply chain in the local versus global; I agree with what Eva was saying.  There is a role for the global supply chain which gonna have significant carbon impact for the good or for the worse.  But if we can impact that just think about the scale that we can affect.  And at the same time looking at our local infrastructure it’s huge opportunities for job growth for career growth.  Whether that’s in the recycling sector where we need to develop local markets for circular economies as Eva was saying.  Our local water infrastructures so that we’re not dependent outside of the city for resilient treatments as well.  All of these things are really helping bring more equity into our system as well as a stronger economy.</p> <p>---</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: You're listening to a conversation about transforming our cities. This is Climate One. Coming up, we’re all in this together – or are we?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>:  </strong>We can either choose to join hands and do this together, to double down on the climate crisis and all the other environmental crises that are facing us, or to close off, isolate ourselves you know, point fingers and blame others..</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: That’s up next, when Climate One continues.</p> <p>---</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: This is Climate One. We’re talking about the pathway to better cities. I’m Greg Dalton. My guests are three experts in urban planning and sustainability: <a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a> of Metabolic, Lauren Faber O’Connor of the City of Los Angeles, and <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a> of the World Resources Institute.</p> <p>One key ingredient for a successful city that doesn’t often get talked about is food. Not all communities have access to affordable, healthy nourishment. Recent school closures and unemployment due to Covid-19 have only worsened the problem. How do we rebuild our food systems to make them more equitable, more sustainable and more resilient</p> <p><strong>PROGRAM PART 3</strong></p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a></strong>:  The food system is the single largest source of impact that humans have on the planet.  That's one of the things that we know that it has to transform very radically if we actually wanna move to a decarbonized sustainable economy.  And cities have a huge role to play in that.  For one thing we know that the food system currently occupies 38% of the surface of the planet and if you include if you take into account the parts of the earth that can support plant life then it's 50%.  And we know that based on the FAO’s projections food output is estimated to double by 2050.  Now that if you just do the math is impossible.  So if we are already using half of the earth for food production and that food output needs to double under the current efficiencies that would basically mean no nature left that all of our land will be used for food production. </p> <p>Another thing that's going on in the food system is that we’re moving around huge amounts of resources, nutrients in particular.  So we’re extracting phosphorus and nitrogen from soils and we’re moving that into the cities.  So cities are like these resource trains in a way that are sucking all these nutrients from their hinterland.  And then processing them into waste, either food waste or human waste.  And then a lot of that just get flushed out into the environment and causes eutrophication or other issues we’re not recapturing when it’s actually a really valuable resource. </p> <p> </p> <p>So if you start to think of more circular cities and what they need to look like in the future, first of all they need to stop being this kind of major just one-way sinkholes of consumption.  They actually have to start producing.  And when it comes to the food system that means capturing those really valuable resources by reengineering wastewater treatment systems to actually beneficially recover those resources and turn that into food production.  Maybe not in the city itself, but at least in the peri urban regions so that we have these production systems that are really closer for the most part to the centers of population and the centers of these nutrients.  Then you have these close much smaller cycles of nutrients they’re not sucking resources from the hinterland anymore and you’re creating local economies that are also then providing new kinds of employment and allowing people to thrive in that context.  There are multiple benefits that you get from starting to close those cycles on the urban scale </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  And is Charlotte, North Carolina example, it's kind of U.S. city that's taken some steps in that direction?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a></strong>:  So Charlotte has committed to becoming a circular city.  We actually developed a strategy together with the city a couple of years ago and they’re now working toward that in multiple different ways.  So a large part of that focuses on inclusive economic growth and development and trying to actually tap into the circular economy as a strategy for reducing inequalities in the city context. So Charlotte in a kind of ranking of the 50 largest cities in the U.S. has the lowest social mobility in the U.S.  So if you're born into poverty there you have less than a 5% chance of getting out of poverty in your lifetime which is a pretty abysmal figure.  So the idea that the mayor's office had with Charlotte was that if they can use the circular economy as actually a strategy to rebuild the local value chain and actually create new kind of forms of employment, this whole what Lauren was talking about, using the green economy as a lever to actually move toward solving multiple problems at once by creating new forms of employment.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>, circular cities is that happening anywhere?  It sounds like something that might be good for Boulder, Charlotte but is that gonna happen at other cities maybe that aren’t as wealthy or aren’t U.S. based?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a></strong>:  I think cities across the world are thinking about that in different ways.  It's very much as Eva is saying this idea from how do you actually decrease their carbon footprint is not just in the big infrastructure sector but also in consumption.  I agree with all the things that are pointed out.  The thing that I want to point out is there are many things cities can do that is beyond urban agriculture.  It’s how they work with their city regions and how they create a regional economy that is good for the region and also good for the city.  Not only food that Eva talked about but how water is managed, how air is managed.  These things cannot be done in jurisdictional boundaries.  And there are many examples of that nature and we're working, so that water is one example.  </p> <p>There are 200 cities across the world that will be without water ration.  And how actually to solve that, you can’t just solve it inside the boundaries of cities.  You have to work with the city region for them to work together to a more sustainable, reusable water.  Like bringing water supply and water resources together.  L.A. is very familiar with this part of the story because they had to figure it out.  So things like that are happening. What is also very much happening as what Eva talked about I think there is lot of cities things where your cities can do on recycle and reuse of water.  Not only from the waste that Eva talked about but how water is conserved in buildings, rainwater harvesting.  There are things that you can build infrastructure differently to aid towards a much more circular economy circular resources around.  Creating new jobs also creating new ways of building things.  </p> <p>The food story is a very interesting story. One of the biggest things cities could do actually for carbon per city is all of us could do, is to eat less beef.  That single thing could actually dramatically shift how much acreage is needed to grow soybean and other crops to feed animal stock.  So, you know, I want to underline it’s not just infrastructure and policy, it’s also behavior and individual choice that we need to make to get this thing going.  And that is why this particular moment for me, Greg, and I completely agree with Eva, we should not be caught with COVID and we should think long-term, all of us should.  But it actually has shown us that it is possible to make big changes. It is possible to get societies to actually act very differently for collective good.  And that is inspiring in some ways that it is possible to get people together and people will stay at home because it's good for not only them but for everyone else.  These are the kind of things, lessons I hope we learn because to do anything Eva is saying we would need like a whole society effort.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  If you’re just joining us we're talking about zero emission cities at Climate One.  I'm Greg Dalton.  My guests are <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>, Global Director the Center for Sustainable Cities at the World Resources Institute.  And <a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a>, Chief Sustainability for the City of Los Angeles.  And <a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>, Founder and CEO of Metabolic, a consulting firm based in Amsterdam.  </p> <p>We’re gonna go to our lightning round.  First asking <a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a>.  What is the urban transit system anywhere in the world that you admire most</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a></strong>:  The first one that pops into our mind that we work with a lot is the city of London.  They have really taking the issue of air pollution, made it something that people really understand through a robust air quality monitoring network.  And enabled the city to then make some big sweeping changes to whether that means congestion pricing and creating a low emission zone, electrifying their taxicabs.  Really going super quick in how they’re electrifying their buses as well. They’re serving as a great example around the world.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  Thank you.  <a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>, what’s your favorite city to bike in?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a></strong>:  I would have to say Amsterdam because I live here.  I don't even have a car so I live on my bike and it’s amazing.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>.  What’s a city with great urban planning for the next 20 years?  </p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a></strong>:  Well, there are many cities.  My most exciting personal choice actually is Seoul, Korea because how much it has changed, which is a very big complicated city.  But how much of the change by simply planning.  There are many examples like that but Seoul really is one of my favorite place of the change and they showed change is possible.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>.  A city you find really frustrating to travel around in as an urban thinker and visionary?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a></strong>:  I mean I guess this is just based on recent experience.  Buenos Aires is a bit of a mess.  I tried biking with my entire group and I think the buses actually tried to run us off the road.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>.  A city that is doing a really good job advancing water as a civil right?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a></strong>:  As a civil right I think Durban, South Africa is doing the most in figuring out how the poorest part of society can get access to water by making water free for the first 50 liter per capita consumption.  I wonder on the line, water scarcity is gonna be one of the major, major things you will hear next as crisis across the world.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  True or false.  <a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a>, Los Angeles had sufficient ventilators so it sent some to Detroit?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a></strong>:  That is true.  Good planning.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  Last one.  <a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>, one opportunity for a circular economy is mining of gold from human poop?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a></strong>:  Potentially.  We do poop out $12 of gold each year.  Each person does.  So if you figure out how to do that, then you could.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  Yeah, that was a new one, thank you.  </p> <p> We have a question from Dylan via YouTube.  “What opportunities are presented by the collapse of oil prices and minuscule interest rates?”  <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>, cheap oil and cheap money.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>:</strong>  I thought the opportunity that's provided by cheap oil and the difficulty oil companies are facing is actually go wholehearted and promote the alternatives that exist on solar, wind.  And because all the time we've been told we can't do these things because oil companies are too powerful and too big and too omnipresent for us to change.  This might be a moment for the world governments will come together and make the tipping points and find jobs for the people who work in the oil industry and wind and solar industry. Because the economics are doing that is there; the political will I hope can happen. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  Another question from YouTube.  This one for Eva.  This is from The Fearless Peanut.  “I know this may sound a bit obnoxious and controversial but why is slow economic growth a bad thing?  Is it good to stop obsessing over economic growth and focus on equity and environment?”</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>:</strong>  Well, if you ask me slow economic growth is not necessarily a bad thing but we don't have an economic system that's designed to handle it.  Our entire system is designed to work on growth.  And so you can actually move to a different model of economy: a steady-state economy for example, or economies that have entirely different logic behind them where you can actually handle not having continuous growth.  And I do think that these are things that we have to really look at very carefully and see is the economic system that we’ve designed the appropriate one.  I’m actually working on a book on this topic to really look at what kind of economy is compatible with a circular sustainable outcome that produces equity and resilience.  And I don't think that it’s the current system that we have now.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong> We’ve been talking a lot about reducing carbon emissions getting to zero emission cities.  It is very important and necessary at the same time we know that cities need to adapt to change heat rather extreme storms that sort of thing.  So <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>, as you look around the world, how are cities that are urbanizing those cities are mostly on the coast and yet we know that the coasts are vulnerable and there's some discussion about managed retreat from certain coastal cities.  So how's that gonna happen where you have this massive migration into cities while cities are gonna face stress to perhaps gradually relocate from where they are.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a></strong>:  You’re absolutely right.  I mean we are seeing across the world the impacts of climate change already.  The flooding for example, urban heat, droughts, lack of water and coastal flooding.  The two data points that are important, you know, most people in the world live on the water or near the water simply because that’s how cities grew in the world because of trading routes.  And the other statistic that’s very important is about a billion people across the world live in informal, semiformal, what the right word is, in housing that is not structurally or legally sound.  Now these two things overlap, right.  The poor people get to live in land that is the most vulnerable.  So a lot of poor people actually live in flood-prone areas.  So one of the things that will happen and has to happen is how we actually focus on this one billion people.  One billion people out of 3.5 or 3.6 billion people in the world that live in cities it's a very significant proportion of people who live in semiformal, informal housing.  </p> <p>So our recommendation has been for cities to focus on housing and actually bringing the stock up so they can become, importing housing stock for which it is, but get better service, better flood protected.  And some places relocated, relocation always has been very, very tricky because most of the time relocation has not been done in a fair way for the poor people.  Like it’s often been associated with people landed part of the society taking land important land over rather than actually protecting the poor. </p> <p>So relocation by definition doesn't actually have lot of trust in lot of societies we work in.  But some of that would have to happen but more can be done by us truly focusing on where poor people live and actually making their housing more sound making it more protected and making better service.  The dichotomy we face in the richer countries in the world we’re talking about optimizing use.  Meaning using less electricity using less energy.  In lots of places we’re working 650 million people in cities actually don't have energy access that is dependable.  So some place in the world energy has to increase to get to better quality of life.  So this discussion has to be about quality-of-life rather than just consumption.  Then again, we’re kind of gonna go to a dichotomous discussion between the rich and the poor.  So this is a very important point, Greg.  The more important point is this is actually happening now it's not a something in the future.  And cities across the world that we’re working in trying to figure out what to do in my own judgment is this is a way we can get more citizen in the world thinking about climate because they're facing it right now.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  Lauren Faber.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a></strong>:  If the COVID-19 crisis is showing us anything.  It is showing us that we are all a completely interconnected society where this pandemic is hurting everybody.  And climate change is hurting and will continue to hurt everybody.  What we’re seeing in terms of the disproportionate impact in communities in this current pandemic are illustrative of the kind of disproportionate impacts that we’re seeing and will continue to see with regard to climate change.  And therefore, the impacts that are felt in some of the places that Ani was just talking about will hurt all of us collectively, whether that's the downstream impact on our economy whether that’s the downstream impact on health cost.  Whether that’s the downstream impact on national security as well where we see that destabilize democracy, then are more susceptible to disruptions that leads to our security system and war which of course, when one area is in that kind of conflict it affects us all and our only source of sort of anything not only do we have to work on fortifying people who are already being impacted.  But we have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.  We have to be able to minimize the impact of this crisis by reducing our greenhouse gas emissions at a record pace.  We have to be able to take on that ambitious commitment across the world, while also protecting communities that are already hurting.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  <a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>, your thought on, you know, you think in systems how to build new systems while kind of retreating or managing systems that are under stress.  And what we ought to be thinking about as we close out.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a></strong>:  Yeah.  I mean I really love what Lauren just said, and what Ani said before.  I think that fundamentally, this crisis has shown how everything is interconnected.  And it has shown us that we’re at the kind of inflection point.  We can either choose to join hands and do this together to double down on the climate crisis and all the other environmental crises that are facing us and actually move forward into a better future together.  Or to close off, isolate ourselves you know, point fingers and blame others.  And you know, this is a kind of it’s a historic crossroad that we’re facing as humanity.  And I think it's important that we have dialogues like this, to also encourage everyone to take the right path in moving forward.</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton:</strong>  You know, this is a new thing to have a guest in Washington DC, one in Amsterdam, one in Los Angeles.  None of us got on an airplane to participate in this.  You think you’re gonna fly less in the future, each of you?</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a></strong>:  I hope so.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>:</strong>  I think so, and I hope so too.</p> <p><strong><a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a></strong>:  Right.  </p> <p>---</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: On Climate One today we’ve been talking about the zero-carbon emission cities of the future. My guests were <a href="/people/ani-dasgupta" hreflang="und">Ani Dasgupta</a>, Global Director of the Ross Center for Sustainable Cities at the World Resource Institute’s, <a href="/people/eva-gladek" hreflang="und">Eva Gladek</a>, Founder and CEO of the consulting firm Metabolic, and <a href="/people/lauren-faber-oconnor" hreflang="und">Lauren Faber O'Connor</a>, Chief Sustainability Officer for the city of Los Angeles</p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>:  Videos of this and other conversations are available at climateone.org. Subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and other major platforms. Please help us get people talking more about climate by giving us a rating or review.  It really does help. </p> <p><strong>Greg Dalton</strong>: Kelli Pennington directs our audience engagement. Tyler Reed is our producer. Sara-Katherine Coxon is the strategy and content manager. Steve Fox is director of advancement. Anny Celsi edited the program. Our audio team is Mark Kirchner, Arnav Gupta, and Andrew Stelzer. Dr. Gloria Duffy is CEO of The Commonwealth Club of California, where our program originates. I’m Greg Dalton.</p> </div> <div class="cards cards_sideswipe small_square"> <div class="container sideswipe"><div class="col"><a href="/playlist/electrifying-everything"><article role="article" class="node node--type-playlist node--view-mode-small-square clearfix" data-node="100008"> <figure> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/2023-01/%21transmission%20lines.jpg?itok=4RE4dUZ3 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/2023-01/%21transmission%20lines.jpg?itok=cH4mL1WI 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1500" height="1500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/2023-01/%21transmission%20lines.jpg?itok=4RE4dUZ3" alt="transmission lines" alt="transmission lines" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <h1>Electrifying Everything</h1> <div class="count">7 Episodes</div> </article></a> </div><div class="col empty"></div> </div> </div> <div class="field-related-podcasts field--label-hidden field__items"> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100025"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/global-just-transition-%E2%80%93-whom" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4605739500.mp3" data-node="100025" data-title="A Global Just Transition – For Whom?" data-image="/files/images/2023-03/PodPage_JustTransition 2_0_0.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-03/PodPage_JustTransition%202_0_0.jpg?itok=-aMWaawD 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-03/PodPage_JustTransition%202_0_0.jpg?itok=Xl-RfUmJ 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-03/PodPage_JustTransition%202_0_0.jpg?itok=-aMWaawD" alt="just" alt="just" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/global-just-transition-%E2%80%93-whom">A Global Just Transition – For Whom?</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">March 17, 2023</div> </span> This episode is a collaboration with Foreign Policy’s Heat of The Moment podcast and features stories from Amy Booth and Elna Schütz.<br>A… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"> <div class="field__item"><a href="/category/searching-solutions" hreflang="en">Searching for Solutions</a></div> </div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100025" data-title="A Global Just Transition – For Whom?" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4605739500.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-03/PodPage_JustTransition%202_0_0.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 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xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="10190"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/power-year-review" data-url="http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20131202_poweryearinreview.mp3" data-node="10190" data-title="Power Year in Review" data-image="">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/event/Giant_photovoltaic_array.jpg?itok=RGcyqzS1 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/event/Giant_photovoltaic_array.jpg?itok=UZpQ7N5Y 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1800" height="1350" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/event/Giant_photovoltaic_array.jpg?itok=RGcyqzS1" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/power-year-review">Power Year in Review</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">December 2, 2013</div> </span> “Fear of fracking is rampant,” said KQED science editor Craig Miller when asked about California’s energy headlines of 2013. But more electric… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="10190" data-title="Power Year in Review" data-url="http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20131202_poweryearinreview.mp3" data-image="/files/images/event/Giant_photovoltaic_array.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Power Year in Review.mp3" href="/api/audio/10190"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/10190"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100148"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-image="/files/images/2023-09/Podpage.png">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=v7PnFYU2 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=uGIVGeOc 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/png"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-09/Podpage.png?itok=v7PnFYU2" alt="People stand on a collapsing rock ledge" alt="People stand on a collapsing rock ledge" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/rethinking-economic-growth-wealth-and-health">Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">September 8, 2023</div> </span> Since the industrial revolution, the global north has seen massive economic growth. And today, many believe continued growth to be the engine of a… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100148" data-title="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC4861431258.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-09/Podpage.png"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Rethinking Economic Growth, Wealth, and Health.mp3" href="/api/audio/100148"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100148"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100128"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-image="/files/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=N4bwtMoT 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=fzc4plXe 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=N4bwtMoT" alt="Bikers navigate a city street next to a bus" alt="Bikers navigate a city street next to a bus" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/just-walk-or-bike-ride-away-15-minute-city">Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">August 11, 2023</div> </span> Can you imagine if everything you needed in your everyday life was just a walk or bike ride away? That’s the goal of the 15-minute City, a new name… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100128" data-title="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC6513264857.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-08/Podpage_0.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Just a Walk or Bike Ride Away: The 15-Minute City.mp3" href="/api/audio/100128"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100128"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="100096"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-image="/files/images/2023-06/Podpage_0.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-06/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=00XvcF5K 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-06/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=tXUwkqYM 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="5000" height="5000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-06/Podpage_0.jpg?itok=00XvcF5K" alt="A young woman in India carries well water on her head while two friends trail behind" alt="A young woman in India carries well water on her head while two friends trail behind" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/killer-heat-confronting-disproportionate-impacts-women-and-girls">Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls </a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">June 9, 2023</div> </span> Extreme heat kills more people per year than any other climate disaster. It preys on the poor, exacerbates racial inequalities, and there is a… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="100096" data-title="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls " data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G8934E/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC8429899937.mp3" data-image="/files/images/2023-06/Podpage_0.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Killer Heat: Confronting Disproportionate Impacts on Women and Girls .mp3" href="/api/audio/100096"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> <a title="Download transcript as PDF" class="transcript" href="/api/transcript/100096"><svg width="12" height="16" viewBox="0 0 12 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" d="M6.22036 11.1914H2.58435V11.7071H6.22036V11.1914Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 9.35352H2.58435V9.86919H9.69658V9.35352Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 7.51953H2.58435V8.03521H9.69658V7.51953Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 5.68359H2.58435V6.19927H9.69658V5.68359Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M9.69658 3.84766H2.58435V4.36333H9.69658V3.84766Z" fill="black"/> <path stroke-width="0" d="M11.6655 15.2129H0.719849V0.212891H11.6655V14.4326H11.1511V0.728566H1.23427V14.6972H11.1511V14.0102H11.6655V15.2129Z" fill="black"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> <div class="field__item"><article role="article" class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="25814"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/rebuilding-climate-successful-city-strategies" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC5913416983.mp3" data-node="25814" data-title="Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod webpage -Rebuilding.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg?itok=U8Jk8mxj 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg?itok=MS3EvyYh 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1200" height="1200" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg?itok=U8Jk8mxj" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/rebuilding-climate-successful-city-strategies">Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">June 24, 2022</div> </span> 83% of people in the United States live in urban areas. And these days that’s where important climate progress is happening. Cities all over the… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"> <div class="field__item"><a href="/category/searching-solutions" hreflang="en">Searching for Solutions</a></div> </div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="25814" data-title="Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies" data-url="https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/B8CC5G/traffic.megaphone.fm/CCC5913416983.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod%20webpage%20-Rebuilding.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Rebuilding for Climate: Successful City Strategies.mp3" href="/api/audio/25814"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path 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/files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg?itok=NPqpoXLG 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="2500" height="2500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod-COVID%20Energy.jpg?itok=eBhMkjmL" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/covid-19-and-climate-future-energy"> COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">May 22, 2020</div> </span> If you lived through the oil crisis of the 1970’s, you remember lines of cars at the gas stations, waiting to fill up on “alternate days.” Now, after… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="25258" data-title=" COVID-19 and Climate: The Future of Energy" 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class="node node--type-audio node--view-mode-list clearfix" data-node="25048"> <figure> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/cities-future" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20191025_cl1_Cities_for_the_Future_RPT_PODCAST.mp3" data-node="25048" data-title="Cities for the Future" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod Life Meets Design.jpg">Play</a> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=16MKBkP4 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=YYmwUUtt 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="3000" height="3000" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg?itok=16MKBkP4" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> </figure> <span class="bundle">Podcast</span> <div class="description"> <h2><a href="/audio/cities-future">Cities for the Future</a></h2> <span class="date"> <div class="field__item">October 25, 2019</div> </span> When Ridley Scott envisioned the dystopian Los Angeles of 2019 in “Blade Runner,” he probably didn’t think about how much energy would be needed to… </div> <footer class="meta"> <div class="category"></div> <div class="audio"> <button title="Add to Playlist" class="climate-one-audio-add" data-node="25048" data-title="Cities for the Future" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20191025_cl1_Cities_for_the_Future_RPT_PODCAST.mp3" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod%20Life%20Meets%20Design.jpg"><svg class="add" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path d="M8.39062 0.212891V15.2129"/> <path d="M15.8906 7.71289L0.890625 7.71289"/> </svg> </button> <a title="Download audio" class="download" download="Cities for the Future.mp3" href="/api/audio/25048"><svg class="download" width="8" height="16" viewBox="0 0 8 16" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <path stroke-width="0" fill="currentColor" d="M3.94045 15.5664C4.13572 15.7617 4.4523 15.7617 4.64756 15.5664L7.82954 12.3845C8.0248 12.1892 8.0248 11.8726 7.82954 11.6774C7.63428 11.4821 7.3177 11.4821 7.12243 11.6774L4.29401 14.5058L1.46558 11.6774C1.27032 11.4821 0.953735 11.4821 0.758472 11.6774C0.56321 11.8726 0.56321 12.1892 0.758472 12.3845L3.94045 15.5664ZM3.79401 0.212891L3.79401 15.2129H4.79401L4.79401 0.212891L3.79401 0.212891Z"/> </svg> </a> </div> </footer> </article> </div> </div> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod-Zero%20Emission%20Cities.jpg?itok=Jiad4Luv 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/media/Pod-Zero%20Emission%20Cities.jpg?itok=Be90KPC8 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="2500" height="2500" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/media/Pod-Zero%20Emission%20Cities.jpg?itok=Jiad4Luv" alt="" alt="" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> <a class="climate-one-audio" href="/audio/zero-emission-cities" data-url="http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audio.commonwealthclub.org/audio/podcast/cc_20200508_cl1_Zero_Emission_Cities_PODCAST.mp3" data-node="25243" data-title="Zero-Emission Cities" data-image="/files/images/media/Pod-Zero Emission Cities.jpg">Play</a> Thu, 07 May 2020 22:42:43 +0000 Otto Pilot 25243 at https://www.climateone.org Ani Dasgupta https://www.climateone.org/people/ani-dasgupta Ani Dasgupta<span class="field field--name-uid field--type-entity-reference field--label-hidden"><span>Sara-Katherine Coxon</span></span> <span class="field field--name-created field--type-created field--label-hidden">Thu, 04/16/2020 - 12:30 pm</span> <div class="width-square media-image"> <picture> <source srcset="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-03/Ani%20Dasgupta%20Headshot%202%20%282%29.jpg?itok=_G0rda-I 1x, /files/styles/square_2x/public/images/2023-03/Ani%20Dasgupta%20Headshot%202%20%282%29.jpg?itok=fqT95TBD 2x" media="(min-width: 576px)" type="image/jpeg"/> <img class="img-fluid" width="1324" height="1324" src="/files/styles/square_1x/public/images/2023-03/Ani%20Dasgupta%20Headshot%202%20%282%29.jpg?itok=_G0rda-I" alt="Ani Dasgupta" alt="Ani Dasgupta" title="" width="" height=""/> </picture> </div> <div class="field__item"><p style="-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);color:rgb(26, 25, 25);font-family:acumin-pro-semi-condensed, sans-serif;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal;margin-top:0px !important;orphans:2;text-align:start;text-decoration-color:initial;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-thickness:initial;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;">Ani Dasgupta is President and CEO of WRI, where he works to advance the institute’s global vision to improve the lives of all people and ensure that nature can thrive. </p> <p style="-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);color:rgb(26, 25, 25);font-family:acumin-pro-semi-condensed, sans-serif;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal;orphans:2;text-align:start;text-decoration-color:initial;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-thickness:initial;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;">Dasgupta is a widely-recognized leader in the areas of sustainable cities, urban design and poverty alleviation. He developed his expertise in positions ranging from nonprofits in India to the World Bank, where he developed the Bank’s first Knowledge strategy.  </p> <p style="-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);color:rgb(26, 25, 25);font-family:acumin-pro-semi-condensed, sans-serif;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal;orphans:2;text-align:start;text-decoration-color:initial;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-thickness:initial;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;">He took the helm at WRI after seven years as Global Director of WRI Ross Center for Sustainable Cities, which is dedicated to shaping a future where cities work better for all people. Under his leadership, the Cities program grew to 400 staff members working in 150 cities, with a reach to more than 400 cities in total. He has established large, multi-stakeholder partnerships with city, national and corporate leaders around the world. Ani has helped create and lead innovative initiatives, including the New Urban Mobility alliance (NUMO) and the Coalition for Urban Transitions, as well as a new line of work around urban air quality. He also brought an increased focus on people and equity to the program. </p> <p style="-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);color:rgb(26, 25, 25);font-family:acumin-pro-semi-condensed, sans-serif;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal;orphans:2;text-align:start;text-decoration-color:initial;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-thickness:initial;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;">Prior to joining WRI in 2014, Dasgupta served as Director of Knowledge and Learning at the World Bank, where he provided leadership in the Bank’s knowledge services for development. He also worked extensively in the World Bank’s Jakarta office as head of infrastructure, where he was deeply engaged in post-2004 tsunami reconstruction in Aceh, as an advisor to the government on housing and infrastructure reconstruction and as the head of the Bank’s housing and infrastructure team. His work at the Bank took him throughout Asia and Eastern Europe as a technical expert centered on community-based development, urban environment, disaster management, solid waste management, water supply and sanitation.  </p> <p style="-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);color:rgb(26, 25, 25);font-family:acumin-pro-semi-condensed, sans-serif;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal;orphans:2;text-align:start;text-decoration-color:initial;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-thickness:initial;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;">Originally from Delhi, India, Dasgupta developed an interest early in life in buildings and design. He earned a bachelor’s degree in architecture, with an emphasis on low-income housing, at the School of Planning and Architecture in India. Later, he was accepted at a special program at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) focused on affordable housing. Dasgupta holds master's degrees from MIT in city planning and architecture.  </p> <p style="-webkit-text-stroke-width:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);color:rgb(26, 25, 25);font-family:acumin-pro-semi-condensed, sans-serif;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal;orphans:2;text-align:start;text-decoration-color:initial;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-thickness:initial;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;">He lives in Washington, DC with his wife and has two sons.</p> </div> <h1>Ani Dasgupta</h1> <div class="field__item"><p>President and CEO, World Resources Institute</p> </div> Thu, 16 Apr 2020 19:30:31 +0000 Sara-Katherine Coxon 25211 at https://www.climateone.org